ashlyn Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Has anyone thought of this option? A customer could choose insurance or not during the checkout process. It would add a set amount onto the final total and write it to the order. Yes, I've been asked :lol: Quote ------------------------------------------------------- I used to be insane, but now I'm just nuts ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Thought of? Yes. Implemented? No. There are some other threads floating around with this idea. There is a solid argument in favor of *always* requiring the customer to buy shipping insurance. Reason being that if the item is damaged or lost during shipping, then it is your responsibility (in many places) to replace the product. In other words, there is no real benefit to the customer of buying shipping insurance, since you are in effect guaranteeing safe delivery. Thus, it is up to you to make the decision if it is worth doing. Good luck, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Actually, if you read the terms and conditions of most of the major online retailers, they explicitly state that prodcuts lost or damaged by the carrier are the liability of the CUSTOMER and not the retailer. The retailer's responsibility is to guarantee that it is delivered tothe carrier. I havn't checked out this contribution yet to see if it offers the customer the choice, but here's one that might. http://www.oscommerce.com/community/contributions,935 Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCProz Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Actually, if you read the terms and conditions of most of the major online retailers, they explicitly state that prodcuts lost or damaged by the carrier are the liability of the CUSTOMER and not the retailer. The retailer's responsibility is to guarantee that it is delivered tothe carrier. Good luck telling that to VISA or MC....it doesn't matter what you have in your policies, if the customer doesn't like something they can refuse the charges and your out the money. Offer insurance is a good idea....if they want to pay that's great....otherwise test your luck or put insurance on the items you can not afford to get burned on. -Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 It depend on how you ship. -Your shipping point/terms FOB - Freight On Board. This stipulates where the shipper is responable for all freight (not alway including cartage) and insurance and where the customer is then reponable for the good. This is the most common - and typically it is "FOB" vendor's warehouse or shipping point (you can still offer reduced or free shipping). This means the customer is responable for the care and any claim or charges on goods from that point on. - True Visa/MC/AMEX can force you with a charge back. But if it is lost/wreaked/broken - most customers do not understand what the FOB point is and will not likely pay you - thus Visa/MC/AMEX chargebacks. Your still left hanging on to the bag. Some times it is FOB-"Delivered". Which mean the shipper pays all charges and does NOT charge the customer. Then it is purely up to the shipped to insure goods or take the risk. There are others freight terms used other than FOB CIF (cartage, insurance, freight, duties and taxes) C&F (cartage and freight only - Insurance, duties and taxes extra) but these are mostly used in B2B and larger international shippments. Which I am not going into at this time. It boils down to this - customers (in general) if given a chance will take the cheapest method - if you offer "no insurance" that is what many may pick - cause it is cheaper. They may not realize the problems that could happen - when it does then they will blam it (right or wrong) on the shipper - not the freight company or them selfes. For the little bit added $$-can save big problems in the future.... My advice: Don't offer the option - don't tell the customer he has the option - ship everything with insurance. Even if it is just the min amount. That way when SOMETHING happends (and it will - sooner or later) - you can say "no problem" put in or file a claim for it and then re-ship if required. Some times as part of the claim - you can invoice the freight company direct for the replacement goods - and they will pay that as part of the claim. Over the last 15+ years I have filed several dozens of freight claims - only a few (that I can remember) was refused - (one - was delivered to the wrong door - in an ally went to another building across from who it was really for - that person was happy to recieve the "free goods" - but he gave it back when the freight company came looking. Another - cause the shipper "forgot" to mark the correct box to insure it - I fired the dope! Another was only part paid - we did not delcare the full value - as per customer's request - the customer refused to pay anything for the goods he could not use - 4 months to clear that hasel - since then we pay for all insurance on his goods- we just don't charge it out to him) Question: Did you relay want to take a chance in not insuring goods going by freight? If a customer really knows about freight insurance - and if they want, they will ask not to be charged it - as "they know and accept all risk" that may happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashlyn Posted July 11, 2003 Author Share Posted July 11, 2003 For your comments and advice. It's a UK site, so the USPS contribution doesn't really help. It's for finicky client who says that several items have gone missing in the post (her site has only been open a few months and the orders are not rolling in just yet. Another UK site has had not one single problem in over a year!) I might just get her to change her shipping info page to reflect this.. Thanks again Quote ------------------------------------------------------- I used to be insane, but now I'm just nuts ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Jason, Another thing to consider about the insurance with USPS, is that in order to insure the shipment, you have to send it "Parcel Post". I had a few international shipments today, and tried to insure one of them. It turns out that the Parcel Post was $9 more expensive than 'Global Priority' plus the cost of the insurance, which was $2 in this case. So, for a item that costs $89, international shipping is normally $30, if I want to insure it, I'll have to pay $40. Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Jason, Another thing to consider about the insurance with USPS, is that in order to insure the shipment, you have to send it "Parcel Post". I had a few international shipments today, and tried to insure one of them. It turns out that the Parcel Post was $9 more expensive than 'Global Priority' plus the cost of the insurance, which was $2 in this case. So, for a item that costs $89, international shipping is normally $30, if I want to insure it, I'll have to pay $40. You serious? International shipping insurance for a $90 product would be $40? If thats the cost of insurance then how could you make any profit if you insure your shipped products and dont display it as a option to the customer? Whats wrong with delivery and signature confirmation these days? They cost cents and track packages very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Some one is getting hoised.....MAJOR UPS charges $0.35 USD or about $.50CND per 100 (to anywhere) - with the first $100.00 included in the freight charge..... Most others are $0.20-$3.00 per $100.00 - up to about $1000. I can (and have) insure a international $19,000 US shipment for about $60 USD... USPS - don't use - I am from Canada. As per USPS: http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/ex...htm#InsuredMail You should only pay 2.20 addional (on top of parcel post postage) for up to 100.00 That mean a international air parcel shipment for 4lbs to zone 11 - $30.00 (the only rate on there chart at this amount - a guess) plus $2.20 - should be $32.20 total plus any taxes. See: http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub51/51tblc.html#...9MC4O.WWWR5G.X2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Another thing to consider about the insurance with USPS, is that in order to insure the shipment, you have to send it "Parcel Post". I had a few international shipments today, and tried to insure one of them. It turns out that the Parcel Post was $9 more expensive than 'Global Priority' plus the cost of the insurance, which was $2 in this case. So, for a item that costs $89, international shipping is normally $30, if I want to insure it, I'll have to pay $40. You serious? International shipping insurance for a $90 product would be $40? As I read his post, shipping is $39, insurance is $2 (or $2.20). The thing is that he had to use the $39 shipping method rather than the $30 shipping method to get the insurance, so you could argue that the insurance cost $11 to get. Cheers, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 To Clarify matters, we have an item in our inventory that weighs about 5 lbs, and coast aobut $90. We have been 'airmailing' these products internationally for about $30. However, since the USPS does not offer tracking numbers, or delivery confirmation for international orders, we were interested in checking out the 'insurance' option, which was an additional $2.20. Unfortunatly, in order to insure the international package, you have to send it "Parcel Post" rather than 'Airmail" which costs an additional $7 to $9 for the same package depending on the country. Even with this extra charge, the USPS is WAY WAY WAY cheaper than UPS or FedEx. UPS wants $72.99 to ship the same item. Fed Ex Wants $80 to ship the same item. Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 That mean a international air parcel shipment for 4lbs to zone 11 - $30.00 (the only rate on there chart at this amount - a guess) plus $2.20 - should be $32.20 total plus any taxes. Almost but not quite. The $30 shipping quote from USPS is for 'Airmail'. THe USPS will not insure any item sent 'Airmail'. You have to send it "Parcel Post" which is an additional $8. Therefore, to insure the item, I would have to pay $40, instead of the $30 I have been paying. If I put that extra $10 I saved in a jar, and when the USPS loses a shipment one day I pay for it out ofthe jar, I guarantee I still come our exponentially ahead. Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Also, the UPS and FedEx prices I quoted are *without* the insurance included. Gods, there *has* to be a better way to ship internationally. Anyone use any other methods? Anyone using DHL? Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Okay - Sorry, I stand corrected. As I have said - I don't/can't use USPS. Yes - typically any postal "parcel post" like Canada Post(CP)/USPS (goverment run and backed postal corporations) would be cheaper than a "for-profit" freight company like UPS/DHL/FedEx etc , that tend to give much faster delivery times and other services that the postal systems can typically do. When ever posable I ship by CP - unless it is more than a few boxes or they are unable to take it (size/weight restriction). It is hard to beat a goverment(s) backed corporation for price... The one thing you did not say that if the customer would pay the $40 or $30 price... cause if you charge the $30 price and it does "go south" then you and your customer is STILL out the money - you or your customer don't save anything. HOWEVER...If you charge or add an upcharge for the risk or "insurance" and keep this in your "JAR" (ie: a "fund") - then if the goods "go south" then you could "replace it" out of your "JAR" that you have been collected. Anything extra after a while is a bonus. If I put that extra $10 I saved in a jar, and when the USPS loses a shipment one day I pay for it out ofthe jar, I guarantee I still come our exponentially ahead. That is always the case with ANY INSURANCE - LIFE, HEATH, AUTO, HOME, WORK/EMPOLYMENT, PRODUCT (you know that extra or extended "warrenty" ) - (some of which may or may not be required by law...) - untill you get stung with a "large" claim - then your left hanging.... That is why insurance companies fold or file for bankrupcies....(ie Hurrican, large floods etc...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 The one thing you did not say that if the customer would pay the $40 or $30 price... cause if you charge the $30 price and it does "go south" then you and your customer is STILL out the money - you or your customer don't save anything. Well, so far, customers are willing enough to pay the $30 shipping. I think that for now, I'll just continue to ship via 'Airmail' with no insurance, and when the USPS does los a package, I'll just pay for it with all of the money I saved by not paying the $10 extra. I still think that there has got to be a better way to ship internationally, though. Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Your not getting it....... What your saying is to charged customer $30 then paid USPS $30 to ship it = NOTHING saved - if the goods "goes south" then SOMEONE will get stuck with the bill or have to replace. Where is the saving in that? What I am suggesting - charge the full 40 or base plus the insuance/handling charge - say $32 - 35 (save the customer a few bucks..) then pay USPS the $30 and THEN you can pocket the saving (up to 10 bucks) - that could be put towards anything that blow up/brake/gets lost/dented etc... durring shipping Just remember when you send out -say - that $500+ computer - if it breaks durring shipping - who is going to pay for it.... that $10 or so dollars you save in insurance means NOTHING. That is my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Yeah, we don't seem to be seeing eye to eye on this one. What your saying is to charged customer $30 then paid USPS $30 to ship it = NOTHING saved - if the goods "goes south" then SOMEONE will get stuck with the bill or have to replace. If I continue to charge $30 and not purchase insurance, the savings is around $10 per shipment, because I didn't spend the $40 with insurance. I don't see many people wanting to pay more than $30 for shipping on a $90 item. And all I have to d ois ship 10 of them with the $10 savings, and I've more than covered the cost of the item should the USPS lose one. And even the USPS has a better track record than to los one out of every 10. Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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