Addon Feedback

[burt]

Would it be of interest to the shopowner community if public feedback was given on addon support threads? 
Feedback could be from other shopowners and from coders.

I'm thinking things like:

• This addon uses incorrect HTML
• This addon is not multilingual
• This addon should use addBlock not addContent
• This addon is excellent in all regards
• etcetc

[burt]

Of course, after Feedback is given, the OP (maker of the addon) can respond such as;

• sorry you're wrong about it, if you look at file whatever.php you can see that it does use the feature ABC
• great, thank you I'll put that in the next update
• I don't understand/care about that
• f--- off, I'm right you're wrong
• etcetc

Even the responses given can determine to a shopowner whether or not to use the addon in question.

[♥altoid]

This is a great idea. Feed back should address funtionality, compatibility, etc. And not include personal attacks, snide remarks and so on.

Feedback that goes personal should be removed.

No drama please, I get that enough in today's politics.

[burt]

Agreed.  I've (and even my family!) has been the target of personal abuse from members of this forum and it sucks.  

So yes, personal attacks and snide remarks would not be welcomed - from the feedback giver.
If the OP then resorts to personal attacks and snide remarks, it's another warning sign not to use that addon.

And I do consider this as a snide remark:
"if you think you can do better, do it"
but I maybe in the minority of thinking that?

[Rwe]

Very good idea. Maybe also a max limit of uploads per month for every user to avoid publishing an low quality addon  every day , this will make the quality of the addons at higher level. 

[burt]

1 minute ago, Rwe said:

Very good idea. Maybe also a max limit of uploads per month for every user to avoid publishing an low quality addon  every day , this will make the quality of the adfons at higher level. 

I don't have the ability to limit uploads, but I think some type of feedback on addon threads would serve as a throttle maybe?

[♥JcMagpie]

28 minutes ago, burt said:

I don't have the ability to limit uploads, but I think some type of feedback on addon threads would serve as a throttle maybe?

I'm sure I already posted the app store is already beeing re designed, I'm looking forwared to using the new version.

[Dan Cole]

I like the idea of selecting from a list of suitable canned responses but I think that open ended comments (if that was the idea) will just prove problematic and lead to issues that the moderators will have to fuss about.  A simple rating system might be a good place to start and yes IMO it would be better if it appeared along with the add on and not in the general support thread.  Support threads span many years and many versions so what was an appropriate comment at one point might not be applicable to the next release etc.   This is true for the add-ons area too so the comments should only apply to a particular release or be release specific.  Just my nickels worth.

Dan  

[♥Smoky Barnable]

Support threads can/should also be a channel to improve and build on to the add-on to make it better for the community. So of course feedback and suggestions should not only be allowed but encouraged. However telling  someone that their addon is garbage is absurd and discourages others who would like to contribute for fear of public ridicule. This is an open source and community environment. It's tantamount to a teacher telling a student to be quiet because his question is stupid. There is no teacher here...no hierarchy that I can see. We all can learn from each other. Some coding "expert" demanding code changes is laughable. The concept is offer polite suggestions and move on. If you don't like an addon don't use it or better yet create your own....or even better simply work together. The personal insults/posturing is getting old. I'm tired of reading them.

[burt]

Coder to "Coder":
The idea would be to advise the "coder" that he/she has made mistake(s) and to point out what could/should be done in a different way.

Shopowner to "Coder":
The idea would be to let other Shopowners know what did not work as expected.

In other words, keeping things factual so that the "coder" can learn from his errors, fix up code and start to produce better addons.

That is, surely, a win-win scenario for all;

• the coder
  learns from his mistakes
• the ones using the code
  if the coder remakes it into a better version
• future users
  will never have to download code that is not ideal
• osCommerce
  gets more well coded addons into the Apps area

It is certainly not a case of "point and laugh", it is a case of making "coders" aware that they have a basic responsibility to make addons that are not broken from the outset.  How can one learn if constructive feedback is not given ?

Personal Viewpoint

I'm probably the coder that has been here the longest - some of my early addons were DIRE - including one that included a hack vector - my knowledge simply was not good enough at the time and I was trying to show off 😕  

Even today, 20 years later, I make mistakes.  There is a mistake in one of my 28d things that a shopowner noticed - I had not noticed it - I thanked the shopowner for the heads-up and fixed the code, and will send out the renewed file to replace the old. 

[valquiria23]

This topic has a double intention, the first is visible, very logical and necessary. The continuous improvement makes man grow and perfect himself.

But there is a hidden second intention and it is rediculizing and humiliating @JcMagpie and that does not seem good to me.

You can not compare the work of an amater who is making his first addons with the addons of a professional coder that there is not even an addon updated in the store .....

Instead of encouraging @JcMagpie for his contributions and his  attempts to improve the community, yo all only criticizing him.

Better when you see an addon with errors report it, propose solutions and upload them to the store. I only see criticism and criticism and in the middle $$$.

@burt, another thing, the site http://www.oscbooks.com/ is down.
It is not good to have links to partners that when you arrive at them site, the site are fallen or broken,  

Best regards.

Valqui

[Hotclutch]

1 hour ago, valquiria23 said:

This topic has a double intention, the first is visible, very logical and necessary. The continuous improvement makes man grow and perfect himself.

Also unnecessary. Forums are about information exchange, so there's no need to make a proposal for the obvious.

1 hour ago, valquiria23 said:

But there is a hidden second intention and it is rediculizing and humiliating @JcMagpie and that does not seem good to me.

This was started a few days ago by someone, and a few people have jumped onto his bandwagon. Suspect it won't end, until the target is driven off the forum. Seen the MO many times here before.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Hotclutch said:

Forums are about information exchange

Not anymore.  Not here.  This thread is one big advertisement for...like it?  Want it?  PM Me.

And I'll tell you how much money you need to PAY ME for it.

If anyone else created a thread like this...soliciting money...it'd be gone in five minutes.

Community project my a**.

[bonbec]

Certainly, a member of the forum may have been the straw that makes the vase overflow, but it should not be seen as a personal attack.
I think some here forget what OsCommerce is all about: allowing shop owners to have an online store.
Competition is often due between shop owners who have the same activity. The customer will not necessarily choose the lowest prices, but he will choose a site where navigation is fast.
A site can be fast thanks to a good host, but also because its code is clean and optimized.
A code with lots of code errors (html, php and / or mysql) will slow down the site, creating random errors that will be displayed to the client. And that's not good at all.
To be able to report a badly realized addon is not to declare the war to its author, but to render a service to all the shop owners who will install it. A shop is not a toy, it is a source of income.
I think I remember that in his HPDL roadmap came the idea that addons should be checked before publication. This joins burt's idea in a way.

[♥14steve14]

From a shop owners point of view I feel that it would be good to rate an addon and leave true factual feedback. The main advertising point that is used for oscommerce is the 7000+ addons that are available. There is nothing saying whether these addons are good, bad or just ugly and will work on the current version that is being used. I have personally wasted many hours, as I suspect many others have, installing addons that just do not work. This should have changed when the no core code change policy was introduced. Its now so easy to add or remove most addons and if an addon does not work for what ever reason then others should know. If an addon has core code changes then people that download that addon should know about it in advance. Coders will learn from this so leading to higher coding standards and less negative feedback. If people are not prepared to take general criticism then they should not release code to be used by others. Some coders also need to loose the attitude.

The only problem I see is when a newer version of the addon is released which cures the problem that left feedback was related to. I would like to see older versions of addons removed, not just updated and left. The trouble being that this will take time and someone has to do it. The same with checking addons.

When someone releases an addon there should be a demo allowed to showcase what it can do. Let people see the functionality and let them decide whether it does what they want. No demo no release. As soon as the demo is taken down the addon should be removed. Only trouble again this will take someone time. There needs to be away to report this type of problems to a moderator so they can sort the problem or remove the addon.

What ever happens has to be for the good of oscommerce and not an individual.

[burt]

Point by point;

8 hours ago, valquiria23 said:

 another thing, the site oscbooks

Thanks for the heads up.  Most likely my host was playing up as it's a holding page while I revamp it.

8 hours ago, valquiria23 said:

all only criticizing him.

Can you show me where I have criticised him or his addons? 

In fact I have stated at least twice in these forums:  "let him make his addons"
as well as "if you feel the need to kneejerk an argument, go and cool down and then come back with a clear head" - this was directed at all, including me.
as well as explaining how and when copyright should/can be changed.
as well as explaining how to make modules multi-lingual.
etc and so on.

The worst I have said is "this addon is not ideal for core" and that, in no way, can be construed as a personal criticism or a professional criticism.  What happened after that was Zahid posted a couple of unnecessary images criticising CE as a whole and my 28d project - that then moved onto personal abuse.  So, (one of) the one doing the criticising is in fact who?

6 hours ago, puggybelle said:

If anyone else created a thread like this...soliciting money...it'd be gone in five minutes.

Any commercial partner would be welcome to do as they want in their own Club.

6 hours ago, puggybelle said:

Community project my a**.

Un-needed.

8 hours ago, valquiria23 said:

a professional coder that there is not even an addon updated in the store .....

When the new Apps Marketplace was set live, a lot of addons cannot now be found. 
So there are loads of my name dating back years (and some of them are awful as already explained).

But if you want to see the sort of things I make:
https://github.com/gburton/Responsive-osCommerce

And so, now these points are answered...all of which have zero to do with "addon feedback", let's get the thread back on track.

Feedback, constructively given, can only be a benefit.   Do we all agree with that?

[bonbec]

In my previous post, I forgot to mention the potential security holes in case of non use of OsCommerce native functions.

[burt]

22 hours ago, Dan Cole said:

I like the idea of selecting from a list of suitable canned responses but I think that open ended comments (if that was the idea) will just prove problematic and lead to issues that the moderators will have to fuss about.  A simple rating system might be a good place to start and yes IMO it would be better if it appeared along with the add on and not in the general support thread.  Support threads span many years and many versions so what was an appropriate comment at one point might not be applicable to the next release etc.   This is true for the add-ons area too so the comments should only apply to a particular release or be release specific.  Just my nickels worth.

Dan  

Without open ended comments there is no way to give constructive feedback?

We do have feedback for developers, and that works (worked?) well - there were a few comments in there from people who had never used the developer (and these were removed once asked to be removed).  But it didn't (to my remembering) ever turn into a festival of mud slinging.

[♥JcMagpie]

It’s ok do whatever you like, build your walls as high as you like. This is not a fan club for any individual.

As I told you I have checked with Harold and he is happy for me to keep post so I will keep posting.

If and when he makes a new rule I will follow like everyone else.

In the meantime I will simply move my support into PM’s.  I do most of it in that anyway and it will keep the drama out of the main forum.

[Dan Cole]

1 hour ago, burt said:

Without open ended comments there is no way to give constructive feedback?

We do have feedback for developers, and that works (worked?) well - there were a few comments in there from people who had never used the developer (and these were removed once asked to be removed).  But it didn't (to my remembering) ever turn into a festival of mud slinging. 

If indeed the idea is to give constructive feedback and shopowners an indication of the quality of the add-on, maybe a rating system (1 to 10) and personal PM to author would do the trick and keep things from getting ugly.  Keep it simple.

Dan

[burt]

25 minutes ago, Dan Cole said:

If indeed the idea is to give constructive feedback and shopowners an indication of the quality of the add-on, maybe a rating system (1 to 10) and personal PM to author would do the trick and keep things from getting ugly.  Keep it simple.

Dan

I'd have thought public feedback would be more valuable to all? 
How can constructive feedback get ugly unless OP goes on the defence and starts slinging mud?

[burt]

1 hour ago, JcMagpie said:

It’s ok do whatever you like, build your walls as high as you like. This is not a fan club for any individual.

As I told you I have checked with Harold and he is happy for me to keep post so I will keep posting.

If and when he makes a new rule I will follow like everyone else.

In the meantime I will simply move my support into PM’s.  I do most of it in that anyway and it will keep the drama out of the main forum.

It isn't about stopping you (or anyone) from posting or creating addons. 

I'm ON YOUR SIDE, I have stated (directed at members who were not posting constructively at you) to "let you make your addons". 
If / when you got constructive feedback, you'd surely take it on board, even if just a "thanks for the heads up" ? 

Just as you changed your (c) with the copyright thing I explained [thank you] and the post I made about language multi capability (though I cannot at the moment find that post), where you at least acknowledged the advice.

[Dan Cole]

2 minutes ago, burt said:

I'd have thought public feedback would be more valuable to all? 

For what purpose? If the idea is to improve the add-on a PM should do the trick. If not a low rating will keep others away.

4 minutes ago, burt said:

How can constructive feedback get ugly unless OP goes on the defence and starts slinging mud? 

Huh?  You can just read this thread to see how quickly that can happen and with little, if any, comment from the OP.  

Dan

 

 

[burt]

Just now, Dan Cole said:

Huh?  You can just read this thread to see how quickly that can happen and with little, if any, comment from the OP. 

You have me hamstrung.  Nothing I can do to respond to that, as you are 100% correct - even in this thread we've seen precisely what we're trying to stop 😕

The purpose of public feedback would be to not rely solely on a (say) 1-10 star rating, where the ratings will be skewed enormously by supporters and haters, regardless of how poor/excellent an addon maybe.

[♥Gyakutsuki]

Quality depends what do you want to include  ?
Code or not, idea or not.
Code :
You can have a professional code make without OsCommerce knowledge  
Professional coder knowing the osC ecosystem.
It's not the same thing, not the same approach but in the both of case, the code is well coded.  Bad or good rating ?

Beginner: You have people want to start to know php, people want to start and try change something inside the shop and at the end to share. Always bad rating ?
Value : Again depends on the definition : For one can be nice, for another can be nothing. Bad or good rating ?  You can sell / create community  add on, without no value for the shop owner, no ?

A forum needs dynamic people and create activity and attract some other people. Positive thinking, not bad thinking a forum must have. Do we have that ?
Destroy someone because this participation is very important is no good for the forum (for any reason), it's no good for the community no good for the mentality. It's not a good sign.

I prefer a rating like that :
Works or not works with the lastest core : Yes / No. (In this case the script must be rewritten. All the script has obsolescence).
Coding osC ecosystem ready : Yes / No
Core modification : Yes / no

The best approach is to create a thread, write a little comment and ask the community to verify the add on is correct or not. Some people can test, some people can look the look the cde and make comment.
Collaboration, share, positive attitude is the best to create a dynamic.
After a beginner can contact a "professional" by email and can ask to advise by a comment on the forum.