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What's the official take on the "Think Tank"?


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and I think that there's at least one other group of individuls sending me pms asking me to joing their merry band of developers in furthering the cause of OSC.

 

I havn't seen them mentioned in the forums themselves, yet, honestly, I'm a little tired of getting pms about them, asking me to join. I've gotten 5 pms in the past concerning these little clubs. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

I'd like to know if these teams have the 'blessing' of the OSC dev team, first of all, to be sending us these pms on their message board. Secondly, I'd be interested in knowing why there needs to be a seperate forum, or group. why can't the duscussion say here, in the official forums?

 

Anyone care to comment?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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The Think Tank is the offshoot of the Believers thread that caused difficulty here. We have several team members as part of the forum and it is an invitation only forum so we can openly discuss the issues that are important to us in developing our stores and contributions.

 

We are not an "elitist" group, but our Brainstorming was offencive to many people here at the Big Board and since a group of us had become friends and had similar ideas about implementing our stores we created a place where we can work together and speak freely without being accused of being holier than thou.

 

New members are welcome, new and creative ideas are always welcome.

 

The name "Think Tank" came from the fact that we do brainstorm well as a group.

 

If you recieve a PM and choose not to join us, the courtesy of a reply will ensure that you will not be contacted again. We have a nomination and voting process for membership and you can be posted as being not interested in membership.

 

We invited several osc forum members who's ideas and opinions we value and admire and many have not replied. We authorized sending one follow up note to make sure the original invitation was received and that our group concept was clear.

 

We will not contact anyone that doesn't respond to this second invitation again.

 

We advocate creative thinking and do not need to or want to offend anyone by extending repeated invitations to people who prefer to stay at the main board only.

 

The Think Tank only wants members that are interested in being there and that are interested in being part of a different type of group.

 

If you received several pm's from our members it is because you have many great ideas and your presence would enhance our discussions.

 

Our board is viewable by members only, so unfortunately you can't go take a peek.

 

Debbie

The Think Tank

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By the way, this is my personal response as a member, not as a spokesperson for the group!

 

Debbie

Member of the Think Tank

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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While I think that this is a good idea, I have to question your methods of contacting members of the OSC forum via pm. In my opinion, this is the definition of spam. I did not solicit or opt in to receive any notification to become a member of this group.

 

I think that if you wish to recruit shop owners to join your group, then you should contact them directly, and not through the OSC forums, unless you have been authorized by the OSC to do so.

 

Furthermore, I'm still not sure why these ideas and collaborations could not be shared in one of the forums here. It seems that this would be where the most exposure would be.

 

Anyway, thanks for the invite, and the compliments. However, I find myself much to busy at this time to partake in new endevours (or read spam).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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We have several team members as part of the forum and it is an invitation only forum

 

I am one of those Team members but I object to the title Team Member.

I (and I asume the others too) have visited / posted under my own flag, not as a member of the osC Team.

 

Doing differently would suggest the Think Tank initiative has the approval of the osCommerce Team which it does not.

Nor does it have dis-approval, we simply have never discussed the matter internally.

 

Furthermore it could suggest the Think Tank Tangent members have

some sort of special relationship with the osCommerce team which is also not the case.

 

As for my personal opinion on this initiative; I have posted my reaction to this thread in the TTT forums and concluded with this:

 

I hope this post makes you all realize that this initiative, although not meant as something elite, is painfully failing if it's purpose has anything to do with osCommerce as a GPL project.

 

Mattice

"Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them"

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Thanks Mattice.

 

Like I said, the main thing that concerns me is the spam I am receiving in the OSCommerce PM system asking me to join this group (and others). If this group is not affiliated with OSC, then they should not be using the OSC PM system.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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Chris, you are not being spammed by the think tank, if you have received more that 2 they are not from the Think Tank forum.

 

Matiice, I apologize. You are a part of the other forum as a creative thinker and an individual, not as a team member.

 

In no way does the Think Tank claim any status as anything other than what it is, a place for creative people to meet and brainstorm in a peaceful atmosphere. PERIOD.

 

I should point out that there may be a second group out there calling themselves the Think Tank that is NOT associated with the same forum that I am a part of.

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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IMHO those that started this "think tank" nonsense don't have the slightest concept of what Open Source is all about. You have effectively taken something that was created in the true spirit of Open Source and turned it into a private little club for those that have recently stormed out of here in a tantrum (you included).

 

Why don't you just create a fork and be done with it? That way at least you'll actually be doing something constructive and not stealing what you need from OSC when you need it (as in the script itself and these forums).

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LOL, creative minds working together scare people that much?

 

BOO!!! :twisted:

 

Not getting into a verbal or written battle with any of you over what open source means, I have posted numerous times about my support and dedication to open source.

 

I'm outta this thread, let it die a natural death......

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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Has one single thing from this "think tank" made it into the CVS? Somehow I doubt it and I seriously doubt it ever will. With that in mind...what's the point? Create a fork and make your own version and you can all live happily ever after. :roll:

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Loxly,

 

I beg to differ.

 

Spam:

1. To send unsolicited e-mail to.

2. To send (a message) indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups.

 

When you PM someone, they by default are emailed. This email *was* in fact unsolicited. Therefore, by definition, it irrefutably *is* spam, regardless of what you may call it. And the fact that I received *more than one* of these spam emails is quite irritating.

 

Hey I think it's great that you guys get together and brainstorm about ideas you have as shop owners. I just don't see what right you have to email me through my affiliation with this OCS forum to solicit my registration on your forum.

 

If you wanted to personally invite me to anything, you *should* have gone to my website directly, and went through my 'contact us' email address. Not through the PM system of the official OSC forums, of which you claim to have no affiliation. The fact that you did only cheapens the appearance of your 'invitation'.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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Then the private messaging on this forum should be turned off.

 

To expect to only receive a pm from someone you have asked to pm you is not realistic.

 

This is the first board I have even used a pm function on, and I was introduced to it when people pm'd me. Via your definition I have received a great deal of spam from people on this forum.

 

I interpreted private messaging as meaning sending a message to a board member that you did not want read by the entire board i.e. private.

 

You have both made your points. Chris, I had more respect for you than what you are showing in this thread.

 

As a matter of fact, I have lost respect for a great deal of people in this entire forum recently.

 

But of course, because someone has labeled me an elitist, my words will go unheard. Or will be taken out of context and I am now a malcontent.

 

When did the world turn upside down?

 

Oh yeah. September 11, 2001.

 

Go worry about real life problems and leave people alone.

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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i cant let this one pass....

 

1) if that is the definition of spam, then a couple of people (who know who they are) have not only spammed, but breached legal issues since I am located in California

 

2) the reason other boards are formed are because they have already attempted carrying on ideas and conversations and been attacked for doing so, so they move someplace else to continue the work, and now they get attacked for doing that

 

3) the new board is working on continuing the progress of the work done here and is contributed back into the OSC community

 

4) did i read 'stealing'? where do you come up with this stuff? since I am already on your list and have nothing to lose in responding directly to you ron, and since you have blatently violated the rules regarding PM, i do not believe you are in a position to say anything about that or much anything else - flame away

 

5) there have been companies created by people who have taken the OSC code, modified it, and now sell it to others - this is not the intention or purpose of the group we formed and where these types of notions come from is beyond all of us

 

6) no one was 'soliciting', someone was inviting

 

7) we are all 'affiliated' with OSC - some of us have written contributions, all of us have helped other people for a long time

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Loxly,

 

So I should be able to solicit people through the PM system to join my PC Gaming forums? Or how about If I set up a multi-level marketing campaign for all OSC users? Do you think I could PM select OSC members that I think might be interested in joining? All they have to do is register, and we can all make a ton of money off each other. Surely you don't honestly believe that this is appropriate use of the OSC forum PM system?

 

And you think less of me for voicing my opinion? How exactly does that work? You only respect people that agree with you. You said yourself that I made my points. No insults, no hard feelings. I simply believe that the 'Think Tank' has misused the OSC pm system. Your respect for me is irrelevant, and beside the point, and I have to say that you making this personal has certainly lost you some respect from not only me, but from many others reading this post. Touche'

 

jchasick,

 

soliciting:

1. To seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application

2. To petition persistently; importune

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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technically and theorectically, what would the difference be between someone inviting you here on the OSC forum, as a member to member sort of thing, versus going to your site, sending an email from your site, and inviting you from there?

 

i don't really see the difference as either way you are going to get a msg iniviting you to the board?

 

now if it was to do mlm or something else, that would definately be different. 8)

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Well, for one, doing it through the official OSC Forum implies or gives the impression that the OSC dev team has endorsed this project. Hense, my original question in this thread. I wanted to know if this was actually the case.

 

Second, you are using information gathered by someone other than yourselved. I gave my email address to OSC to be used on this forum. Since you used information gathered by OSC, and not yourselves, I feel that you have somewhat taken advantage of resourses not appropriated for your benifit.

 

Now then, a question for you. How is a MLM campaign different from this? Both are soliciting enrollment, and both would be loosly associated with OSC? Both would be for the common good of all members. How exactly is that different?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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mlm, and even soliciting are associated with money, and to try and associate them to the invitation is an extremely loose interpretation - i do not see the association at all and am totally confused how you are making the association

 

inviting to participate in a forum has nothing to do with money, its an invitation - you either accept or decline

 

no information was acquired, it was used within the confines of the board, a PM - it was not used for a mailing list or sold to someone for gain or benefit

 

it was an invitation (even tho i am not the one who did it), but i know people wanted invite you, so they did, and this is what the result was

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...Do you think I could PM select OSC members that I think might be interested in joining...

 

That sounds reasonable. If you see evidence that someone may well be interested in your gaming forum, then contact them. Of course, it is an OSC-related gaming forum...?

 

I think that is the point - it is a personal invitation based on views people have expressed, and it aimed fair and square at the subject that brings us all here in the first place - OSC. It is not a broad-brush sweep of everyone that happens to dip their toes into these forums, e-mailing them of something completely irrelevant. Now that would be SPAM.

 

If people want to discuss things in their own groups - that's fine. That's freedom - the kind of freedom that comes with the GPL. I've not been invited - but hell, it's not my party. I don't expect to be invited to them all.

 

-- JJ

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Yes this was the result. I questioned the methods your group used to 'invite' people to provide personal information in the form of registration, and to frequent a new website. I take it critical thinking is not a big part of this group?

 

Hey, I'm flattered that there were people that wished for me to join this group. I also get emails from hundreds of other groups per day that wish me to join their little groups too. Unfortunately, I call them spam too.

 

The reason there is an association between a MLM group, and your group, is that you have yet to distinguish yourselves from them. Without being able to view the forum without providing personal information (is someone starting an email list here?), I have absolutely no idea whether I wish to join or not.

 

And I didn't say you acquired the information, I said you (well not you personally, but you know what I mean :wink: ) misused it. The point is, this group has no affiliation with OSC (just like my imagined MLM group), and therefore the official OSC forums should not be used to solicit membership.

 

Let me ask you this. If your group was not invitation only (as it has been explained to me) do you think it would have been right to solicit membership to your group publicly, in the forum, instead of by PM? Do you think that the Dev team would have allowed it to stay up? Do you think that there would not have been people that complained about misuse of the forums?

 

If your answer is yes, then I will consent, and you had and have every right to proceed as you have, with my full apologies to yourself, Loxly, and your group.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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If people want to discuss things in their own groups - that's fine.

 

Without question. I actually think that it's a great idea to have a group of developers and shop owners colaborate to discuss their ideas to further their mutual benifit.

 

I'm only questioning the method of the invitaion here. And especially the followup solicitaion. And I am by no means convinced of this 'groups' intentions one way or another. I simply have tooo little information to judge by.

 

 

Anyways, my original question was partly answered (Thanks Mattice), and it seems that the Dev team is allowing this sort of soliciation, so I'll gladly bow out of this debate.

 

As I indicated earlier, I have no hard feelings, and I wish this 'group' all the best. It was only a question.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

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Let it go Chris, you could have easily said no via pm or email, and then the rest of this wouldn't be here. Every time it drops off the first page, someone digs it out and brings it back.

 

You made your point(s), we disagree and made our points, we won't publically invite folks because then we get yelled at for excluding some folks.

 

We are damned if we stay here and we are damned if we go and try to keep to ourselves.

 

This is no longer a useful thread I will no longer post to it and would ask others to desist also. Unfortunately it seems that the people currently in the thread want to have the "last word"

 

Go ahead, have your "last word"

 

Chris I lost respect for you for starting this in the first place instead of replying to the invitation privately.

 

I don't care what the rest of you think about me, because there are few people left here that I have respect for. They know who they are.

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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 And I am by no means  convinced of this 'groups' intentions one way or another. I simply have tooo little information to judge by.

 

So ask....

 

Is is sooooo hard for people to understand that we don't have an agenda?

 

People here are way toooo cynical.

 

People can talk without needed to be conspirators to take over the world.

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and this will be my last word on the subject so it will R.I.P.

 

I'm only questioning the method of the invitaion here. And especially the followup solicitaion. And I am by no means convinced of this 'groups' intentions one way or another. I simply have tooo little information to judge by.

 

and again, you lose me here - what other method is there? if we are all developers working on OSC, and some of us are developers, some are shop owners, and we are on a msg board for OSC, then why not invite people from the board? I do not understand where and why people are making up all of these semi-paranoid thoughts about what the group is up to. we were the people in the Belivers thread (and lets not resurect that one), but we have all been here for a long long time (at least most of us)

 

where in the world does mlm come into it?

 

its a chat and development group - plain and simple - we are working on various OSC issues and contributions for OSC - plain and simple

 

my last words on it 8)

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