Responsive? Conversion? Complicated!..Worried of Southend

[steveinbaz]

Hi

Please accept the following comments as from someone who has only been working with any of this for a month.. from scratch.

Having put 12 hour days into my site for the last month and thinking I'm actually getting somewhere.. I'm very concerned about stuff I am seeing discussed on here regarding 'Responsive' sites. 

I have to say its all looking a bit scary for a newcomer. 

Can we upgrade from v2.3.4 to make the site responsive to mobile devices? It occurs to me that my customer base (when my site does go live) will be the crowd heavily into mobile devices. 

Have I wasted my time with the work I have done?

Do I have to start again? i have spent so much time on layout and design, plus adding a few mods,.. will they work?

Are there any plans for a step by step guide to converting for non-coders and novices? (if converting is possible..)

I just tried the google test thing ad my result was of course terrible.

Really unsure which way to move on with all this now.

Thanks - Steve

[MrPhil]

osC 2.3.4BS (bootstrap) is a community-supported version of 2.3.4 that is responsive. I understand that much of it will become osC 2.4 at some point. It should be data compatible with 2.3.4, but theme (look and feel) customization that you've done may or may not be transferable. Some add-ons may be usable -- I'm no authority on 2.3.4BS, but it's discussed quite a bit.

[steveinbaz]

Ugh! Think I can hear the stone lid grinding over on my efforts :(
Perhaps I should suggest a note in 2.3.4 currently being offered (by hosts too) saying something like "Be aware you need to consider 2.3.4BS if you want your site to be mobile friendly?

[burt]

List the addons/mods/custom code you have added to the site as it stands now.

[steveinbaz]

I've added

Modular Front page
Extra Info Pages
Generic Box

then just some other code to make full screen backgrounds and template changes.

 

[steveinbaz]

Not a lot of addons I know.. But my site already amounts to hundreds of hours of work, in crawling through alterations bit by bit.. coming back for advice.. going back..

I think my questions are valid, if not for the experienced coders on here, certainly for other new people in the same situation as myself, so I really think my questions are valid and would dearly love an answer.

As it stands, I see little point in adding to to my current site, until I know what to do.

Guess I'm looking for advice and reassurance.
 

[burt]

I've already told you my view in a different thread; go responsive.

 

You can take the lessons you've learned so far and apply them to a responsive build.  

Take 10 seconds to convert your database to make is useable with the responsive build.

[steveinbaz]

I've already told you my view in a different thread; go responsive.

 

You can take the lessons you've learned so far and apply them to a responsive build.  

Take 10 seconds to convert your database to make is useable with the responsive build.

Burt, much due respect to you and for what you do, but  you are assuming I would know what to do in those 10 seconds.

 

Is there no chance of having a simple guide for changing over. I mean, I cant even find the link for the bs download! and even if I could, what do I do with it?

 

One of the things that has surprised me, spending time on this site, is the amount of 'shipwrecked' sites that there are links too. I really didnt want to end up as another one of those. I approached this knowing nothing and have got this far, so I have tried to get my head down and have a go.

 

What do you do?.. just upload a new installation? Over the old one? Are there key files that you can change? Which ones?

 

 

[burt]

What I would do is start reading the "responsive" forum, where will come across many links and discussions.  Jump in the deep end and sink or swim.  

 

Suggest that if you do jump in, you first put on a lifejacket by making a full backup of your site as it exists now, including your database, so that if all goes wrong, you can easily revert to your backup.

 

You will learn from your mistakes.

[steveinbaz]

haha.. What a nightmare. Did I read a post somewhere about you having a wish to bring this stuff up to date and make it more intuitive? Appealing to even non coders for input? What about an easy to follow guide for donuts like me who walking into this unawares that they will need to change over from the relea given on the download link?

Would you be prepared to share a link to the bs download please?

Just to be clear.. I would be happy to continue with what I have put together.. However I am reading on here that people like Google.. and google.. and google :/ will possibly be penalising sites that are not responsive.

I can't help feeling that I have been given a model t ford with a guide on how to rig the engine up and having go the thing chugging along.. then having the guide taken out of my hand and being asked to put a jet engine in it :D  

[burt]

Download links:

http://www.oscommerce.com/forums/topic/399743-oscommerce-bootstrap-addons-and-code/?p=1713772

You can choose "gold" or you can choose "edge".

 

DB Conversion Script: 

http://www.oscommerce.com/forums/topic/399743-oscommerce-bootstrap-addons-and-code/?p=1713774

 

Ensure:

 

1.  You read the README document which shows here https://github.com/gburton/osCommerce-234-bootstrap#oscommerce-234-bootstrap - paying particular attention to "installation".  It always surprises me that people do not read this.

 

2.  Prior to making ANY change, backup your existing site AND database.

[Mort-lemur]

@@burt

 

 

1.  You read the README document which shows here https://github.com/g...e-234-bootstrap - paying particular attention to "installation".  It always surprises me that people do not read this.

 

Have you considered renaming it as "Warning Do Not Read!" (w00t)

[burt]

As an addendum, it seems to me that Google is the King when it comes to getting visitors to your site, especially if your site contributes towards your livelihood (as most ecomm sites do).  So, pleasing Google would probably make sense.

 

What do Google like ?  

 

http://www.oscommerce.com/forums/topic/400894-look-what-google-are-doing/

 

http://www.oscommerce.com/forums/topic/399541-responsive-design-is-googles-recommended-design-pattern/

 

http://www.oscommerce.com/forums/topic/398505-responsive-sites-%C3%A1-la-google/

 

There's three more for you read...

[steveinbaz]

OK Burt. I appreciate the trouble you've gone to there.

It is now for me to make a decision whether or not I think I can tackle the 'upgrade' and make a succesful attempt at the relevant tasks.. like the database thing.
Or indeed if I learn from this that this kind of thing is not for bods like myself who can't code and don't really understand how it works,, and opt to change to another commerce script that ready to install, as far as being 'responsive' goes.

Really I think I'd like to crack on with what I have, as I have at least learned some useful stuff and have a vague idea of things by rummaging and trial and error.

As for google. What utter bastards! :D When those two boys started out, it was to offer something specific ie the best search engine in the world, free of the clutches of greedy capitalist tossers. It was all about information and quality of information. Now we see that they will rank according to which device the searcher has.

And I thought the whole thing about these bloody hand helds having such ridiculously small screens was the swipe, pinch and expand features. Such bollo.

You can tell I'm old school with me camping gaz powered tower cant you. :D

Thanks again for help.

[Mort-lemur]

@@steveinbaz Stick with it .... Keep your existing site and "play" with a set up of 2.3.4BS in an alternative directory

 

The more stuff you learn the less you will need to pay someone in the long term to do stuff for you on a "another commerce script"

 

Remember, that as long as you research and try to figure out problems yourself first that you will get some great help on this forum, where with a "Commercial" alternative you will be at the clutches of the commercial developers and their hungry bank accounts.........

 

I knew nothing about coding when I started with OSC (and I still know very little) but I manage to get by, sometimes alone and sometimes with help (free and paid for) but I remaiin convinced that for small businesses that OSC is the best there is

[clustersolutions]

@@steveinbaz, just go for it and do the switch now! I did an upgrade to 2.3 more than a year ago, and thinking I was to add a separate mobile site later. Guess what, BS was released since and I had to redo all the work (maintaining separate mobile and desktop sites troubles me). I am glad that I did and so far I like what I am seeing with indexing and customers interaction. To me, I think once a shop go live it will take a life of its own and its codes will keep changing to suit the business needs (that's why open source for me), and at the end when the time comes there will just be more work for another major upgrade.

 

I am going to go as far as saying that it is utterly irresponsible for a good consultant to implement a non-responsive site for the client based on today's standard. Well, unless the concern was working yourself out of a job. As for Google, they are building a new campus near where I live and they will create jobs. They got mouths to feed so I am ok for as long as they don't take more than 15% of my gross...gotta pay to play...that just it...

 

 

OK Burt. I appreciate the trouble you've gone to there.

It is now for me to make a decision whether or not I think I can tackle the 'upgrade' and make a succesful attempt at the relevant tasks.. like the database thing.
Or indeed if I learn from this that this kind of thing is not for bods like myself who can't code and don't really understand how it works,, and opt to change to another commerce script that ready to install, as far as being 'responsive' goes.

Really I think I'd like to crack on with what I have, as I have at least learned some useful stuff and have a vague idea of things by rummaging and trial and error.

As for google. What utter bastards! :D When those two boys started out, it was to offer something specific ie the best search engine in the world, free of the clutches of greedy capitalist tossers. It was all about information and quality of information. Now we see that they will rank according to which device the searcher has.

And I thought the whole thing about these bloody hand helds having such ridiculously small screens was the swipe, pinch and expand features. Such bollo.

You can tell I'm old school with me camping gaz powered tower cant you. :D

Thanks again for help.

[burt]

It is now for me to make a decision whether or not I think I can tackle the 'upgrade' and make a succesful attempt at the relevant tasks.. like the database thing.

Or indeed if I learn from this that this kind of thing is not for bods like myself who can't code and don't really understand how it works,, and opt to change to another commerce script that ready to install, as far as being 'responsive' goes.

 

You have one further option before you move to a different software which might end up costing you dearly:

 

Post in the commercial enquiries section for a developer to take your site as it stands now and replicate it, responsively.  This would cost you less than transferring your software, for sure.

 

And one more option;

 

keep your shop as it is right now.  It (osCommerce in the form you have it) has served many sellers very well over the years, and will continue to serve for more years yet.   1000s of shops, serving millions of customers... 

 

Whatever you decide is right for you, do.  

[steveinbaz]

Well I have had a real long think about it and I have decided that.. No I want to keep with it and fight the good fight.. I am from Essex after all you know Burt! :D
On weighing it up, there is no other forum like this one. And I have picked up a quite few bits. So what I decided to do..

I have the one site which I totally buggered up yesterday.. so I am going to put a new install of BS onto that and try and have a go at customising it.

The other site I have, I am a bit more precious about.. but I do want it to be responsive.. my target audience will be the big mobile using age group.

I am prepared to take the gamble with that.. My hosts keep daily back ups for 14 days, so I can fiddle.

Thing is.. with your instructions above..

What order do I do it in?.. Do I use the conversion script on the database before I install the BS version? Before I install the new BS version?
Do I have to delete everything  and start again with a fresh install or overwrite whats there?

 

[burt]

How I would do it, if I had a normal 234, and wanted to go to responsive...

 

1.  Download the "gold" or "edge" version of resposnsive (personally I'd go for edge)

 

2.  unzip it onto my desktop 

 

3.  remove the following files from what I just unzipped:

3.1  admin/includes/configure.php

3.2 /includes/configure.php

3.3 /images/store_logo.png

 

4.  Log into my hosting control panel and make a backups of

4.1  my shop as it stands now

4.2 my database as it stands now

4.3 save these backups onto my desktop and do not touch them at all.

 

5.  I'm still in my hosting control panel

5.1 delete all of my existing shop except for

5.1.1 admin/includes/configure.php

5.1.2 /includes/configure.php

5.1.3 /images/ and everything inside (do not delete)

 

I now have (most likely) an almost empty hosting account, that looks like this:

 

 

public_html/

public_html/includes/configure.php

public_html/admin/includes/configure.php

public_html/images/ (a bunch of images in here)

 

Caveat #1

Your admin folder might be called something entirely different eg:  /jchveoov/

 

If so, go back to what you unzipped in #2 and:

rename the admin folder from /admin/ to the the name of the admin folder in your hosting account

 

Caveat #2

You might have uploaded your shop into it's own folder inside /public_html/

If so, make sure that in an upcoming instruction you upload to the correct location in your hosting.

 

 

 

At this point, you have files, ready to upload.  Upload what you unzipped in #2

Your configure files will not be overwritten as you removed these from the fileset

 

Once uploaded...

 

 

Back to your hosting control panel, open phpmyadmin...

Run the SQL as shown in the "conversion script".

 

 

Log into admin.  Install the new modules you want to install.

 

 

DONE.

[burt]

That looks like a lot of work, but is less than 15 minutes start to finish in reality.

 

Of course you then have to make the site look pretty etcetc

[steveinbaz]

And one more option;

 

keep your shop as it is right now.  It (osCommerce in the form you have it) has served many sellers very well over the years, and will continue to serve for more years yet.   1000s of shops, serving millions of customers... 

 

Whatever you decide is right for you, do.  

Thanks for all that Burt, very helpful.

 

What I have finally decided to do is to stick with the versions I have for the time being as I can at least become a tiny bit familiar and can fiddle with the code as far as customisation goes and get a half decent result.

 

If there are over a billion websites out there and if one piece of information I was reading is correct in saying that 1 in 8 are responsive, then I doubt I will be the last to convert.

As you say, it has served people very well and will continue to do so. I have picked up two customers this week and haven't even had the site listed with Google..

 

It will need to become responsive, but having spent a few days playing with trying to customise a BS version, it is just too much for me to take in.

My businesses are fledgling at the moment and I don't have pennies to spend.. and I need to get on with my art and stuff.

 

But somewhere down the road I will pay someone who knows what they are doing to convert my sites.. Meantime I will try and keep the 2.3.4 versions working and looking roughly how I want them to look.

[burt]

If that is the correct thing for you to do, in terms of Return On Investment (ROI not only on money, but in time), then :thumbsup:

[ce7]

Hi Burt,

 

I started osC with zero knowledge of PHP and osCommerce and spend nearly a year to make the site works the way I want with many addons / heavily modified with lots of help from experts here, like Kymation, multimixer and of course you. The step by step note really help people like me who has no progarmming background to NOT get sink and get lost from the very beginning!

 

here is the question, with this responsive Bootstrap version, will it be able to let peopel who doesn't know much about code, allow them to design their front page skin/template easier, such as add frame, add background images, add produt images, add/modify/delete pages?

 

osC V2.2 has STS, but 2.3.x has nothing much until recently few different addons (not try all yet) working on create page or frame.

 

any link to help to understaning this new version for designing the template?

 

thanks

 

Lyn

[burt]

Same advice as given here:  http://www.oscommerce.com/forums/topic/400918-responsive-conversion-complicatedworried-of-southend/#entry1716078

 

In general, you should not be changing "core code" or change it as little as you possibly can.  

 

I did have plans to write an eBook, but that's probably not going to happen as there's not a lot of interest in the Responsive osCommerce.

[♥14steve14]

I did have plans to write an eBook, but that's probably not going to happen as there's not a lot of interest in the Responsive osCommerce.

 

That surprises me, but saying that it is new, not really official and its very hard to find a link to the download. There are very few addons currently, but people are spending time on this. I am sure that once oscommerce releases an official version there will be a lot more interest, and now that Google is penalizing non responsive sites, I am sure the uptake will be higher.