Is OSCommerce ready to use "out of the box"?

[Mark1]

I have been playing with this software in my free time for about 4 months now. I have read a lot in the forums about changing the "look" of the stock software. I have looked at many of the modules that enhance the function of OSCommerce. I have visited many of the sites that have gone live recently. My real questions is: Is this software functional, secure, and ready to use "out of the box"?

 

The purpose of this post is not to debate wether or not a "stock" look would be appealing to customers or not. The purpose is to ask what needs to be done, if anything, to make OSCommerce ready to add products and "go live". I know many people prefer to dress it up for the visual effect. My question is: What is wrong with using it out of the box, adding a merchant account from say Authorize.net, a SSL certificate from Comodo, adding my 350 products and going live?

 

The reason for my question is one based in several failed attempts to get help in setting up my site. I have contacted many people and asked for help and even offered to pay for help. Either their expertise is too pricey for me to afford, or they do not seem to have time to help. I certainly do not blame anyone for these problems, but I wonder if the users who do not have the expertise ( or a lot of time) to program in PHP and/or the talent to make "beautiful things" happen with their sites get frustrated and just go another route.

 

I am hoping the responses to this post will do 2 things. First, I hope it will serve as constructive feedback for the core team to include any functionality that is missing with the stock product if there is any need at all. Second, I hope it will allow me to get input from those who have been successful in creating sites as to which modules and how much upgrading is needed to make a functional site.

 

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

Mark

[Orphon]

Short answer: Yes!

 

Just go through the admin side set everything to your store... name, address etc..

 

Also Your shipping and payment mods.... pretty much it :)

[Mark1]

A consensus of 1? :lol: Thanks for the reply Angela.

 

 

Mark

[WEBMISSIE]

I have been trying in vain for days to set this up on a local windows 2000 machine with no luck. I see a lot of questions and answers being posted so it seems like there is some good support for the project but I am still trying to get it to work with no avail. Might not be as easy as they make it sound to be to install if you have a development environment different from the norm. Just my 2 cents.

[YushDon]

i think your question, although valid, is to say the least, curious...

 

osC can work straight out of the box, but the default settings would not suit you or anyone.

 

firstly you need to change the configuration details. then tax, shipping and other info that may depend on your location, local practices/customs and business strategy.

 

considering osC users are from all parts of the globe an excellent shopping cart like osC is flexible enough to cater for all their needs, regardless of geographic location.

 

in actual fact, this ability for flexibility and continued upgrade, continuity and support, is probably what drives most people to use osC! and, to cap it all, it's completely open source (read: free!).

 

er, what more can anyone want?! 8)

[Guest]

I have to say that if you are looking for a generic online store then this works out of box without any code change!

A non-programmer should able to run the store, take orders, and support the customers. (Only after the osC is installed correctly on your server.)

Installation is bit problem but it is not that product does not work. It's that not many good detailed install doc. (When I was a consultant, we had step by step detailed procedures with screen shots for installs.) I know people have it installed on Linux, and most of the developers here do not use windows. I have installed it on windows 2000 with iis or apache as the web server, with php and mySQL. (Yes, works with IIS or Apache. NO code changes or osC file editing.)

Install mySQL, and PHP. Configure the Apache or IIS correctly, unzip osC, run the install for osC, and the site is up and running. (Use Admin to mod any settings for the site.)

Great work for the osC team. Thanks. 8)

[moyashi]

I say "yes" for most cases.

 

Biggest part of setting up osC is probably dealing with the admin configurations.

 

Installation problems? I've been developing contribs on my iBook for the past 2 months and never a problem with an install.

[Mark1]

The real problem I am finding with the software is not really in the installation (I hired someone to install it for me). My problems have come in the form of perhaps too much information. I have read all about the nightmares of the googlebot. I have also trouble finding people to pay to help me.

 

I am concerned that the googlebot problem will cause me serious security issues. There seems to be 2 schools of thought on this problem. First, there is Ian's SidKiller. The Sidkiller seems to have it's fans whom it works well for. Others have had no luck with this solution. There is another solution donated by Burt that kills the Sid. It seems more people have had luck with it. I have even read that HPDL is considering using it in a new snapshot of OSC. I have noticed there is a version on OSCommerce called CRE5 or Loaded5. It has many of the "best" modules (including Ian's SidKiller) already added to it. Again, this solution comes with upgrade/installation problems (read more money to install). The real drawback in my mind is will Ian's SidKiller work for me, and if not I have wasted the money.

 

I have also had a difficult time getting people that are qualified or have the time to do work on my site at a reasonable price. In my profession, I am the expert. I take control of a problem and work it to a conclusion. So many of the inquiries I have had about help begin with "What do you need help with". To be honest, I do not know, that is why I have asked for help! :lol:. I have been quoted prices upwards of $2000.00. While I know people have to make a living and some rely on this sort of work as their bread and butter, I find this price range unaffordable. Not everyone is a PHP programmer and I am slowly beginning to come to the conclusion that OSC is only for those who are.

 

Right now I am considering two new approaches to this problem. The first one is using the OSC right out of the box with it's boring (how the critics whine when you ask them to look at a stock install for your new site). The seecond one is a little more drastic. It involves buying a software. Compared to the high prices I have gotten for help, this solution is really not so expensive. I have priced complete carts capable of rivaling OSCommerce around $149.00 and up. Right now this seems like a bargain, but I am sure there are pitfalls withthem as well.

 

 

 

Mark

[moyashi]

@ help needed

There's now a forum just for that. ugh, not being a jerk, just in case mention here.

 

@ quotes

ugh, that can hurt but I guess that would depend on the finished product. If an investment of $2k paid for itself within a few months that much better.

 

@ consultation

I guess that this is the neverending loop problem. I personally haven't made progress on my site for the last 2 years. I've so busy working on other people's sites that my site ends up being zeroed out due to the fact I don't have time to maintain it. Also, like you mentioned in your post, I've also realized that many here are builder/coder types which makes it that much more harder for a person who just needs a product out of the box. Adding on to this I guess this is probably the same situation throught out the php world. Lot's of perl based sites I've seen matured differently therefore money to use seems to be a standard now.

 

@ google

Boy, I wish there was a definitive answer to this too :D

[Mark1]

Hi Carsten,

 

Yeah $2000.00 was outrageous. Unfortunately, that is not something I can afford as a startup cost right now. For the work I was asking to get done, It was outrageous. I was only asking about fixing the google bot problem (or atlease figuring out which fix might work for me), giving me advice on which SSL certificate to purchase and install it for me, and evaluate the functionality of my site. I was expecting something in the $150 to $200 range. :lol: Maybe I am just too much of a tightwad. :oops:

 

This problem is not a new one to the open source market. Linux has only recently begun to provide software that is user friendly. It took them several years to produce a product that is capable of being used by the masses. Maybe OSC will get there soon.

 

 

Mark

[moyashi]

@ :nix friendly

true, it took even Apple 2 years to get something that is on par with M$

 

@ osC

It's still one of the best I've seen so far that is free. 2 others come to mind but that's better left out of this thread :D

[Mark1]

Free? Hmmm...

 

Who was it that said... I will give you the automobile for free if you will buy the gas from me at my price? :lol:

 

While the software is free, I am finding it is only the beginning. Lay people such as myself are certainly having to pay others for some help. I suppose if I had time I could learn the things I need to know to bring this project along. Unfortunately I was born neither good looking nor rich, so, I am forced to work for a living :cry: . This leaves me little time to "play" with software. Additionally, at $17.99/month for hosting and $45.00/month for my merchant account that I am not using I have to get something going soon(before I am a bankrupt business). :lol:

 

 

Mark

[burt]

Mark:

 

SID killer: Ians is fatally flawed (if you are using both SSL and NONSSL). If you are only using SSL, I believe it works fine.

 

If you are using both, then the other fix is better (at least in the short term). I believe that the fix that I (and others) worked on is already implented in CVS (but I could be wrong about that).

 

SSL: $49.00 (per annum) gets you a Rackshack (.com) SSL cert which are good. You don't have to be hosted by Rackshack to get one. Read through their sales, help and faq pages. Thread: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.p...threadid=128961

 

Look of a site: Go along to templatemonster (.com) and choose yourself a template. These are fairly simple to fit around an Osc store - just takes time and effort, and a lot of copy/paste.

 

HTH

[Orphon]

I am by far no programer... Before coming here I just knew basic html really...

 

But I am chugging along doing all the installs my self... (site is not live yet)

 

It might be taking longer than if I was a programer type, but it CAN be done by a novice......

[Orphon]

P.S. I too work for a living at a third party job....

 

and I am paying web hosting fees and merchant fees that are not really being used....

 

I stay up late nights and work all day on my days off.....

[Mark1]

Hi Burt,

 

I have looked at an SSL certificate from Comodo. It is $49.00 or $59.00 per year(depending on which level of insurance you get) . I have looked into this some, and I THINK it is what I want. I am not really an expert on SSL certificates, but the general consensus is that they all pretty much work the same way.

 

As far as the SidKiller, I have tried your SidKiller on my site. It seems to work for me (At least as far as I can tell, but What Do I know?) :lol: Thank you for all the hard work that went into making that contribution work. I am looking into a hosting package for $12.99/month that comes with OSCommerce CRE5 already installed. I would disable Ian's sidKiller and install your sidKiller. :).

 

I was really hoping to hear from people who are live and managing their sites. I wanted to know what modules are worth installing and which ones are not so helpful. I know many are special use modules. If I am going to have to pay for these to be installed, I would prefer to get them all done at one time to make it as cheap as possible.

 

I was able to install the admin comments toolbar contribution this morning (thank you Marie). It seems to be working fine. :D I have heard a lot of good things about the easy populate. I will look into that soon as well. Any other suggestions as to which modules are handy to have? I am interested in one that keeps track of total sales and possibly the tax that is collected. My accountant would be VERY appreciative of that. 8) Also, I have heard of a contribution that keeps track of who visits your site and where they go. This seems to be good for seeing if the customer breaks off in the middle of the ordering process. Possibly pointing to why they did not complete the transaction. I do not know the name of it, but I would be interested in it as well.

 

Thanks!!

 

Mark

[Orphon]

@ :nix friendly

true, it took even Apple 2 years to get something that is on par with M$

 

Well, I don't agree with this at all. Everything Windoze is, is a rib off of Apple designs.

 

Programing wise I am not sure, but my husband has been programing on Macs for years.

[Mark1]

Hi Angela,

 

I would certainly like to hear some of your tips on how to modify a site. I have peeked at your site and it looks REALLY cool. I can see you have put a lot of time into it. I have spent my share of long nights at the keyboard working on my site, but I find them not very productive. I seem to break as much as I fix. :lol: Obviously, you have a lot more patience than I. :wink: As for the site I am hoping to put together, I would love to have a completely modified OSC site. Unfortunately, I cannot accomplish this on my own, and I have not found someone to do it within the small budget I have. This is my plan going forward: I am going to go with a slightly modified site that I can build on my own. If it takes off, and the project succeeds, I plan to update it, and possibly pay the large numbers of dollars people want. At the moment, this shopping cart is more of an experiment than an expected reality. I am prepared to give it a real hard try, but it if does not succeed, I do not want to have thousands of dollars wrapped up in a failure. Maybe..If i did it would motivate me more. :lol: (I just thought of that). At any rate, I was just wondering if any novices were having any success without spending huge dollars or driving themselves insane. :P

 

 

 

Mark

[Guest]

<dennismiller_voice>

I don't want to get off on a rant here

</dennismiller_voice>

 

1) people quote upwards of $2K

 

My take on this: Welcome to the real world. When I make mods I donate them here. When people ask questions on the forum I answer them here. When you hire me to do your store you pay for my time. I have no problem giving back to the community, but if I'm working for you, then you pay for my work.

 

2) Google

 

I have gone through a great deal of time and effort to make a system work that google likes and that works for my clients. I have told people here how to do it (it's in at least two google threads) and have provided the code.

 

3) Out of the box stores

 

I have stated a number of times that OSC out-of-the-box is a fully operational well done store. Spend a few hours messing with english.php and /languages/english/*.php and you have a store that has it's own look. Play another hour or so with the side boxes and your store has it's own function layout. Take 30 minutes to understand CSS and play with the stylesheet, and now you change the look even more. Want to change the buttons? Try http://www.elbavarowebdesign.de/ for a different basic set or two (and remember to thank him via paypal). In less than 20 hours of your time, and minimal PHP work, you can take the basic store and give it a nice change of pace.

 

 

I'm sorry if it sounds unsympathetic, but if you really think you can do "just as good" by going out and spending $149 on someone elses product. Go do it! $149 would get you about 1 hour of my time as a consultant. Of course you had best remember that you get what you pay for. $149 will get you their shopping cart, which may be all you need. But when you want to track your users, it won't have a contribution like user tracking. When you want to add a featured products section, it won't be 10 minutes integration time for some php code that was donated to the contributions area. When you want to institute GV or call for price, it won't be a product extended by people that care about community and are willing to help you make your store better.

 

What is amazing about this community, and what you don't get when you buy a store product, is that people out there, potentially your competition, are all working and giving back to help you make your store better. Where else in commerce would you see someone who is building a store and finds out that a layout or method works, and then goes out ans shares it with others who might be competing for the same dollars? Where else do you see multiple people running the same business share techniques?

 

Sorry to not pour out the emotions that you most likely want to hear, but the truth of the matter is, it's YOUR store. You can either pay me, or someone like me, to build it or you can build it yourself. I actually recomend that people don't hire me to build their store. It may take you longer to "build it yourself", but in the end it's YOUR business and you should undersatnd how it works. On the net it's not a matter of "location, location, location", but in understanding your software and how to service your client base with it. On the net all products become comodities, and the thing that will make or break you is how you leverage technology to SERVE your customer. So, I generally suggest that you learn the software, and use it to provide the service your customers want.

 

Last nit. You actually started spending money for a merchant account, hosting and other things BEFORE you needed them. I would say that you're showing the "cart before the horse" syndrome. My suggestion to anyone who is thinking of following your example is that they find the least expensive hosting service around (or set the whole thing up on a local box) and set up and play with the store until they are happy with it. THEN start spending money on the services they want AFTER they have the store up, loaded and working.

 

<dennismiller_voice>

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

</dennismiller_voice>

[Mark1]

You make a lot of very good points. It is too late for me to benefit from your valuable insight though. I agree that I did things out of order. The reason I began this thread was that very suspicion. Perhaps someone else will benefit from this. It is too late for me to recoup the lost dollars I have spent because I thought I was ready for the services I spent money for. It is my hope that some new person to OSC reads this and gets some benefit. I hope they dont rush out to get merchant accounts etc. before they are really ready for them.

 

I have never stated that the "gurus" on here were not worth the money they charge nd I wonder if you have not become somewhat offended or have that perception. It is a case of simple economics. Not everyone can afford the services of a professional. I stated this in the opening post. I admire the work of the peope who contribute to OSC, and I certainly have an appreciation for those who are able to create sites that are distinct and novel. You do not have to be an artist to appreciate the art. The purpose of this post was certainy not to ridicule those who charge for the services, the purpose was to give those who can not afford a pro some ideas and options to possibly help them along. After all, isnt that what this is all about? :)

 

The problems I am having are a direct result of my inability to program and figure this cart out the way I would like. I have made a lot of progress in modifying my cart, and I know there are still things I need to do.

 

You make a lot of valid points, and I agree with you on every one. You should understand that not everyone has the talents that you posess and just can not modify the cart like you can. Again, the purpose here was not "bash the guru's" it was a simple question: Is this cart functional without modifications? I asked the question for a VERY specific reason. I wanted to let people know that the cart does not have to be hacked up to work. It is the overwhelming opinion that this cart works out of the box. This opens avenues to those who can not pay right now to have modifications done. The cart can be used as is, used to build a revenue stream and then upgrade as the budget is available. You would be surprised at the opinions that I have gotten privately that it is not workable out of the box. :?

 

As a matter of practicality, I can not contribute to those who have contributed until I get a revenue stream. I have made a personal commitment to make a contribution when I get my site live (assuming I ever do), and then contribute more later. This is a personal choice and I know that it may bring frowns to the faces of some.

 

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I was hoping to get insight from some of the professionals.

 

 

Mark[/b]

[ceetee]

I commiserate with you. I've just installed the shopping cart and spent 3 fruitless hours trying to find out how to change the the default currency from US Dollars. Must be one of the first things people configure, but I'm dammed if I can find it in currency admin.

[Guest]

did you look at admin->localization->currencies?

[Jaguar]

I belive that OSCommerce is the easiest to use shopping cart system to get setup out of the box and make it functional first time - bar none. :D

 

The install script is easy to use and really walks you through the process - HOWEVER - PLEASE NOTE TO ALL WOULD BE OSC'ers

 

:idea: You have to have your stuff together BEFORE you attempt to install it. :idea:

 

Let me repaet that

 

:idea: You have to have your stuff together BEFORE you attempt to install it. :idea:

 

 

The main problems that I have seen on this board involve people who are ill prepared to install OSC. Thats not to say it hard, its not something you want to do without proper preparation. OSC is like a toolkit, before you use it make you know what the project requirements are before you start using the hammer or the drill.

 

Most of the franctic calls for help regarding OSC start out something like " I am not a programmer but I just installed Osc..")

 

 

This is great and I have a graphics design friend who can install Osc and he is not a programmer - BUT he has a clue about what information he needs before he installs it! ( He is also aware of his weak areas)

 

1. Database exists ( password, username, proper rights)

2. know path of catalog and admin folders as they are on the server that is providing hosting. ie. (https/mysite.com/catalog)

3. making sure that they have access to perform CHMOD

4. making sure that their hosting provider allows them to acces the server

5. Know how thier SSL is currently configured by thier hosting provider

6. Know what the customer requirements are BEFORE thinking about OSC as a solution.

7. KNOW WHAT THEIR OWN LIMITAITONS ARE.

8. Be willing to pay the going rate for professional installation help.

9. Understand that said help usually bills by the hour.

 

 

This takes me to your second point- Compensation.

 

Professional OScer's charge because you are buying their time and expertise. If you expect to pay little - you will get as much as you paid for. You will get what you pay for. :!:

 

Those of us who charge have invested alot of time and energy into OSC and need to be compensated for that. Our rates can be "high" but we do give you our time and you will get a quality product. There is probably a direct correlation between "free" help and never getting a satisfactory result.

 

Those of use who contribute to this board do so for their own personal reasons, usually to "give back" to the community that has helped us grow our knowledge of OSC.

 

OsCommerce is as excellant a product as they come. It is an excellant contribution to the OpenSource community. Howerver dont expect those of us who earn our living off of providing consulting services to give away the farm without a fee.

 

Third Point - Upgrading

 

How long does it take to get a functional site? Well that depends on what your customer expects and what you sold them and how talented you are.

 

If you sold them features that exist within the standard version of OSC you can get a fully functional site done in about a hour or two. :D (Including database configuration)

 

If you sold them complex and customized features it will take a longer time depending upon your skill level and familarity with the tools. ( this includes , PHP, MYSQL, Servers, Hosting Providers, SSL, OSC, Graphics)

 

For example this site www.orthodirect.net

took me and three of my devlopers two months to build test and deploy. The site uses features and functionalty that exist only in that site. There isnt mush OSC left in that site. The site automatically reconfigures itself based on where you enter from (IP address) and who you are when you log in. In addition there is provision for remote operation via Kiosks and Handheld devices ( PDA's, Cell Phones)

 

This site www.pedrocompanies.com/index.php We rolled out in a week. Not too flashy on the front end but alot of cusomization on the backend. Remote access via product vendors, etc (BtoB)

 

The primary difference between various implementation of OSC is what the customer expectations are and what your level of comfort is with creating those features that are not part of OSC.

The ability of OSC is not that the install works flawlessy very time. Its the inheirent power provided by the exteme flexibility and portability that is devired by the design and utilization of PHP and MYSQL.

 

 

Bottom Line-

 

OSC is a great product. You make it even better by providing what is missing, and only you can answer that.

 

OSC provides you a tool kit and what type of house you build is up to you. Hoopefully along the way you have developed some skills so that you can perform you own upgrades.

 

This forum is a wondefull tool to help newbies and experienced people learn more, but please dont blame the software if you cant figure out how to configure it. It probably isnt the software.

[Mark1]

Well said Loren.

 

Although I disagree with 80% of what you said, you did say it well. :lol:

 

I am beginning to get the impression that the website developers are getting nervous about this thread :o . Many of the new people to OSC agree that this product is not really designed for the layman. Some of us have gotten lucky, and others struggle with problems on a daily basis and still others find help through the forums and by paying those who charge reasonable prices. Perhaps I have touched a sensitive spot with those "upper end" webdesigners. This was not the reason for the thread. If you had taken the time to read through the entire thread (and kept an open mind), perhaps you wouldnt have been so offended.

 

I asked the question for a specific purpose: To find out if the product was capable of running a store out of the box. The question was not how much one has to spend for modifications. Perhaps I should make this a little more clear: I never said the help was not worth paying for I said it was unaffordable for MY small upstart business. Frankly, I am very delighted that you posess the skills to hack away at the software and produce beautiful websites. Personally, I do not have the money to pay for such things.

 

In your justification for your position and why you should get paid for your talents, perhaps you stumbled upon the real issue:

 

How long does it take to get a functional site? Well that depends on what your customer expects and what you sold them and how talented you are.  

 

If you sold them features that exist within the standard version of OSC you can get a fully functional site done in about a hour or two.  (Including database configuration)  

 

If you sold them complex and customized features it will take a longer time depending upon your skill level and familarity with the tools. ( this includes , PHP, MYSQL, Servers, Hosting Providers, SSL, OSC, Graphics)  

 

*I* did not sell anyone anything. You seem to believe that OSC is for developers and maybe you are irritated that lay people are intruding on your domain. :lol: Perhaps you forget that open source should be for everyone. It should be as easy to install as any commercial program. It should have all the capability (and more) of any commercial package. This one certainly does have the capability.

 

OSC is a great product. You make it even better by providing what is missing, and only you can answer that.

 

And the bottom line is: If some of us think it is a great product to out of the box, why cant we do so? :wink:

 

I apologize if I have gotten under your skin. I have not been critical of anyone. I wanted to bring the information to light for the new people like me. If the core team reads this, and decides to work on making the product easier to install and upgrade, that would be a great advantage (for everyone) and all of this typing will have been worth it. If not, I have succeeded in rubbing a raw spot in one developer's back side. :P In either case, I have had a successful day. :wink:

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Mark

[Guest]

You make a lot of very good points. It is too late for me to benefit from your valuable insight though. I agree that I did things out of order. The reason I began this thread was that very suspicion. Perhaps someone else will benefit from this. It is too late for me to recoup the lost dollars I have spent because I thought I was ready for the services I spent money for. It is my hope that some new person to OSC reads this and gets some benefit. I hope they dont rush out to get merchant accounts etc. before they are really ready for them.  

 

As someone said, first get everything in order... THEN spend money. :)

 

    I have never stated that the "gurus" on here were not worth the money they charge nd I wonder if you have not become somewhat offended or have that perception.

 

1) I am far from an OSC Guru!

2) I have 20 years of "procedural" background, and OSC uses friggin classes!

3) I wasn't offended personally

 

It is a case of simple economics. Not everyone can afford the services of a professional. I stated this in the opening post. I admire the work of the peope who contribute to OSC, and I certainly have an appreciation for those who are able to create sites that are distinct and novel. You do not have to be an artist to appreciate the art. The purpose of this post was certainy not to ridicule those who charge for the services, the purpose was to give those who can not afford a pro some ideas and options to possibly help them along. After all, isnt that what this is all about?  :)  

 

And that is what I attempted to do.

1) Start in the /includes/languages/english.php file

2) Move to changing stuff in /includes/languages/english/*.php

3) play with the /include/column_left.php and /include/column_right.php

4) make changes in stylesheet.css

 

In just doing that, in a few hours any novice user can drastically effect the look and feel of the store. Add in a few hours playing with graphics and you can change it even more. Take a few hours to figgure out how the boxes work, and you can change the look and feel even more.

 

Then, when you get comfortable with how the system is built (after making about 10-12 hours of successful changes as listed above), then start looking at the contributions.

 

    The problems I am having are a direct result of my inability to program and figure this cart out the way I would like. I have made a lot of progress in modifying my cart, and I know there are still things I need to do.

 

Most of the items listed above don't really require "programming" ability. It helps to be able to do some basic PHP when you get into working with the boxes, or adding something like featured products, but even there, most of what you will want to do is fairly well covered in the readme files that come with contributions, or you can comment out stuff (remember, always backup) rather than delete if you are unsure of the code you are working with.

 

    You make a lot of valid points, and I agree with you on every one. You should understand that not everyone has the talents that you posess and just  can not modify the cart like you can.

 

LMAO. Sorry. But my entire PHP experience is about 9 months. I'm a de-employed CTO who, with the exception of Education 4 Kids (a website I have operated since 1996 that makes no income) hasn't written code in ages (um, that's got to be qualified with the fact that I completely rewrote a CF application in CF without knowing any CF before I started a couple of years ago).

 

Again, the purpose here was not "bash the guru's" it was a simple question: Is this cart functional without modifications? I asked the question for a VERY specific reason. I wanted to let people know that the cart does not have to be hacked up to work. It is the overwhelming opinion that this cart works out of the box. This opens avenues to those who can not pay right now to have modifications done. The cart can be used as is, used to build a revenue stream and then upgrade as the budget is available. You would be surprised at the opinions that I have gotten privately that it is not workable out of the box. :?

 

No I wouldn't be surprised that someone told you that the cart doesn't work right out of the box. Why? Because it does require modification. Now you can get away with very little modification and have a working store damn fast with OSC (faster than with most commercial products), but while it "works" right out of the box, no one would want to use it that way, you will want to make some level of modification.

 

    As a matter of practicality, I can not contribute to those who have contributed until I get a revenue stream. I have made a personal commitment to make a contribution when I get my site live (assuming I ever do), and then contribute more later. This is a personal choice and I know that it may bring frowns to the faces of some.

 

People give as they can. Some of us give by giving code in the form of contributions. Others by finding defects and suggesting changes, still other just by helping people within the forums. Each person gives as they feel most comforatble. It doesn't have to be cash. :)

 

    I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I was hoping to get insight from some of the professionals.  

 

Mark, everyone here has a story. They have a reason for being here. A reason for giving. We all have different way to give. on one store I am working on the problems deal with integration of the associates program with MS1-loaded-V. The only people that can join the associates program are people who are already members, so I have had to rewrite the code to pre-fill the associates application as these people will not want to re-complete most of the same data twice. In addition the associates payout shouldn't include GV purchases and should be done AFTER all discount coupons are taken. This is requiring a rewrite of a portion of the associates computation portion of the system. Finally, I want the associates payout to be in GV, another module to be written. When done this will all be released here in the boards. Who knows if anyone is interested in this level of change, but it's how I choose to try to contribute.

 

My suggestion to you is to take the time to create a store from the OSC product. Start by outlining what portions of OSC you feel are required to provide SERVICE to your customer base. Then install the right version for you (MS1 or MSI-Loaded-V or whatever) and start to play with it. Get a feel for what it can do out-of-the-box. Then start playing with the items I mentioned above, see how easy it is to make the changes you want to give the store your personality. You don't have to be a programmer to make the store work for you, and I understand the frustration that a non-programmer must feel (like when I look at OO code and wonder why anyone ever messed with procedural stuff... it worked), but hang with it an I know that you'll find that OSC beats commercial software as the best option for most store owners because it's well designed (even if it does have OO) and there is a great forum of supporters here that will be more than happy to help someone who is trying.