Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 website: florist-shops.com We have a oscommerce cart with a highly customized check out form and some customization done in the order/customer history. Need someone to: 1. Fix some current problems such as... we are not receiving exactly what we need from authorizenet and are not receiving the actual order at all from PayPal. 2. Do some further order form/order history customization such as collect and include the 'RECIPIENT' telephone number (required for FedEx). Include the card message in the order e-mail confirmation and order history... etc... 3. Implement some 'contributions' as needed. Must be an experienced oscommerce 'programmer' who can work fast. Cannot pay you for your 'learning curve'. Ideal charge should be 10.00 - 15.00 USD per hour. We are looking to establish a long term relationship for our oscommerce website(s) This cart is hosted on OUR OWN UNIX SERVER, so no problem with any configs or settings there. Please respond to [email protected] or [email protected] Payment will be made as you require, PayPal or credit card. Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I have to say this, but most perfessional programmers make at least twice that. And freelance developers will charge 4 times what you are asking. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 "perfessional"? Did I say that? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattice Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hope they don't pay you for spelling Chris :D Mattice "Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I swear, it's the keyboard. Hey, just because I'm a programmer, doesn't mean I know how to spell regular words. I can spell stull like ... print sub { sub { sub { sub { join ' ', @_ } -> (@_, 'Hacker') } -> (@_, 'Perl') } -> (@_, 'Another') } -> ('Just'); Just fine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Regarding the notes on programmer fees. Of course the fees they charge are all over the board, that is to be expected. We have spent several thousands of dollars using freelancers at e-lance.com. Experience has taught us that $10-$15 per hour is not a problem. I might add for great work, including writing scripts from scratch! Usually from India or Russia. We do not always choose the lowest bidder for work. We prefer to pay 'per project', but that is not practical in this case. We tend to stay away from UK and US programmers as they are priced out of our range. Just our experience. Regards, Mike ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rseigel Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Then why not advertise there? Your pricing is insulting to the vast majority that frequent here. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I have to say this, but most perfessional programmers make at least twice that. And freelance developers will charge 4 times what you are asking. You're still cheep. The median price quote per hour for 2002 just for basic html was $112. Check out the Web Price Index. "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." -- Andrew Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbzilla Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I tend to agree with most everybody's opinions on here. I am however, not insulted by the rate quoted. I just think that the topic title would have been a little more forgiving if it was 'paid professional "quality" needed' No, I doubt you will find a professional programmer at those prices, at least here in the states. A qualified college pizza-money hungry kid.. a sure bet! I personally take more offense to the outsourcing to Russian/Indian programmers. Not that they aren't competent or deserving. I just prefer to keep the money in the economy that I am vested in. Good luck in your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemonj Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 You're still cheep. The median price quote per hour for 2002 just for basic html was $112. Check out the Web Price Index. That chart has to be wrong. I know of nobody making $112 just for HTML. The current average rate is $15 - $25 per hour (US funds) fo straight HTML. The average cost of a good PHP developer will be an average of $35 - $45 per hour (US). "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - A. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 One of the main problems that I find when dealing with offshore temp or consutant programmers is the language barrier. Not to mention that if your shop is based in the US or the UK, and you contract international programmers, there may be additional legal implications that I'm sure you have considered. Please consider that the only reason that Indian and Russian developers out there can be hired at those rates is because their economy is so poor. The American Sneaker company Nike felt the same way you do about hiring workers at less than the market rate for their services. By all means, please do hirde Russian and/or English Programmers. But don't take advantage of their countries economy for your companies benifit. Pay them what would be commesurate for a programmer in your own country. $10 - $15 per hour will get you a good documentation specialist. Not an Applications Programmer, and especially not a Database Programmer Analyst. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemonj Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Which may be the reason why they have already spent thousands. ;) "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - A. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tresseh Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I'm glad someone else replied to this thread - i had to work very hard to refrain from posting... 15 US Dollars = 9.31446 British Pounds. I dont know what its like in the states, but the people that work the checkouts at our supermarkets get paid this. :lookround: I would like to think of myself as a "quality" freelancer, and as such would believe myself to be in a position to offer the services you require. However at those rates, the cost of living would ruin any chances of making any profit, i mean hell, the guy that washes my car gets paid a better hourly rate. I echo the sentiments already posted by others - good luck with finding human resource for your project, lets hope ....<hourly rate exhausted, please deposit more funds> Regards, Jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkoast Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 That chart has to be wrong. I know of nobody making $112 just for HTML. The current average rate is $15 - $25 per hour (US funds) fo straight HTML. The average cost of a good PHP developer will be an average of $35 - $45 per hour (US). Those rates are actaully low for "professional" grade work. A few years ago my "bill rate" was $175/hr...of course I didn't even see half of that in my pocket, but when your dealing with big companies, on decent sized websites...upwards of 100/hr is pretty standard. They're not really paying $112 for the work its self. they're also paying for the assurance that the work will be done well, and on time. This is why big names charge big $$$. I need to read the rules more often... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loxly Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 By all means, please do hirde Russian and/or English Programmers. But don't take advantage of their countries economy for your companies benifit. Pay them what would be commesurate for a programmer in your own country. Agreed, if I were a programmer from one of those countries that saw your post I would be highly offended. Pay programmers what they are worth, not what you can "get away with". [no external urls in signatures please, kthanks] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahed Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I think some of you in US didn't read the article on Business Week about outsourcing(about 3 weeks ago). According to that article a developer in India or Russia can do the same job we are doing in USA/UK but cost would be 1/10. Companies are doing it now, I got laid off because my company(a major healthcare company in USA) outsourced all IT work to IBM india and trust me I been involve in this process, its a success story for the company. I also run a business and I would do that. I wouldn't even spend my valuable time to get the work done or get someone from here who will charge me $35-$40/hour. I would rather pay a guy in India and Russsia who is happy to earn $10/hour for quality programming. Check out sites like rentacoder.com or scriptlence.com and you will find out yourself. I think its time to accept that a developer cant earn $100/hour anymore, be a businessman and earn $1000/hour Shahed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loxly Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 website: florist-shops.com Is this a live store? I tried to go look at it and I get an incomplete download on the front page and file not found on the category links. deb [no external urls in signatures please, kthanks] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkoast Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I also run a business and I would do that. I wouldn't even spend my valuable time to get the work done or get someone from here who will charge me $35-$40/hour. I would rather pay a guy in India and Russsia who is happy to earn $10/hour for quality programming. Check out sites like rentacoder.com or scriptlence.com and you will find out yourself. I think its time to accept that a developer cant earn $100/hour anymore, be a businessman and earn $1000/hour Shahed If the work is outsourced, someone still needs to understand what needs to be done (IMB doesn't just pick up random people, and put them too work), and if it cannont be communicated properly the client will receive something that was not originally planned upon. I'm no expert, but I suspect when you deal with a sales/dev. rep for the IBM your dealing with a person in the US, or someone that can speak English properly. I think there is added value in accurate communication. Not that I'm saying people from other countries don't speak english well, its just that it can be very difficult to understand sometimes. I went through the Computer Science program at UCSB and found many of our "college level" professors, and TA's from other countries were very hard to understand. Support your local community! If it takes a little more $$$ to get the work completed...IMO...it's well vested. But hey, I guess that just my rent/car/insurance speaking. I need to read the rules more often... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 According to that article a developer in India or Russia can do the same job we are doing in USA/UK but cost would be 1/10. Companies are doing it now Yup, and sneaker makers in India work at 13 years old and for $0.25 an hour. Does that make hiring them at Nike any more ethical? Programmers in the US/UK make what they do because of the education/experience required and how much that education/experience is worth in the US/UK jab market. Comparing a salary in Russia/India to a job market in US/UK is comparing oranges to apples. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattice Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Yup, and sneaker makers in India work at 13 years old and for $0.25 an hour. Heck, I know a bunch of idiots that have worked for less! "Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loxly Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 :lol: :lol: :lol: Always a comedian! :lol: :lol: :lol: [no external urls in signatures please, kthanks] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald Ponce de Leon Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Heck, I know a bunch of idiots that have worked for less! Our time is just priceless ;) , osCommerce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardsandwars Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Sure, of your own free will, as a hobby, more or less, albeit a full time one. But what would you expect as compensation to work specifically on one persons shops, at the whim of one persons expectations, timeline, and business rules. Personally, for me, programming is just not as much fun working for someone else, and I'd expect to be compensated accordingly. Sure, I program all day and night on my own shop. And the compensation hardly approaches anything even remotely approaching a salary. But it's my shop, and I'll willing to 'donate' my time to my projects. I'd hardly be willing to 'donate' my time for the specifically for the benifit of someone else's business. Especially considering that fact that the offer wasn't for someone to develope 'open source' code to could be released to the open source community. The offer was for someone to develope proprietary code specifically for one business. How much would it take to hire you to do that? I suspect more than you expect to make working on OSC. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit. If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 everyday i get emails from around the world wanting to parnter with me..... and when the right project comes along i will. 15 bucks an hour is the average and the work is of "good" quality. I say go for it and outsource yer work. I just hope the next time yer buddy orders flowers, it will be from an overseas concern that will cut yer legs off price wise. Serves you right. What do ya pay yer counterhelp.....as little as possible i bet. And that is probably returned with like like loyalty and quality. You want quality, you gotta pay for it. People like you are a reason i require a non refundable deposit up front. Not going to pay for a learning curve>......is that what you call yer Doctors diagnosis? Do you refuse to pay for that too? with your attitude i would only work on a time and materials basis and the pay would have to be up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 As the owner of a website with a few thousand in expenses every month which I have to finance out of my own back pocket, I've found Elance to be an invaluable source of help. Im a small operation, still running the whole site out of a little box under my desk, yet serving up (and catering to the needs of) about 130,000 user sessions monthly. It isnt my first choice to go with someone who can barely speak proper english, nor deal with the endless headaches of trying to communicate and facilitate development projects with them ... but it has been because they only charge $10-$20 an hour that I have survived. Without Elance, I would have gone under a long time ago. It is the cheap help that has enabled me to accomplish large projects and continue to grow my site, without much of a budget. For small business owners who can't program on their own, and have limited budget, the cheap programming rates aren't a preference; they're a necessity. In that sense I agree with the original poster. However, it is ignorant to tell an audience (this forum) full of people whose market value can reach up to $80 per hour for programming services... that they should be willing to work for $15 an hour, or take a hike. This is a completely different world than India. I found a phenomenal programmer in the phillipines via Elance who was literally drooling at the thought of $15 per hour. I kid you not. Upon further inquiry, I found out why. For a 2 bedroom house, his rent is $300 a month. Different economy. US bidders on Elance get extremely frustrated by the Indian and Russian programmers who continually outbid them, however, I can't count the number of miserable projects I've had to lead because these dirt cheap programmers couldn't form a sentence correctly, or did not read the specifications correctly. Entire projects have been screwed up. Countless hours have been lost. Its not by any stretch of the imagination all its cracked up to be. It may be cheap, but the bruise on my forehead from slamming it against the wall so many times is proof that you get what you pay for. HLT . www.hairlosstalk.com Consumer Hair Loss Information & Support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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