Jump to content
  • Checkout
  • Login
  • Get in touch

osCommerce

The e-commerce.

I'm trying to get started with eCommerce--Have Questions


pgowder

Recommended Posts

First has anyone here done any type of intergration with a forums db like vBulletin?

 

Second, do any of you use osCommerce with a forum?

 

How do you users react to having to register twice or three times if using PayPal.

 

I've only used PayPal on my site to sell products. So how do these other processing providers work? Which one is recommended?

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First has anyone here done any type of intergration with a forums db like vBulletin?

Nope, but wouldn't image it would be that difficult..

Second, do any of you use osCommerce with a forum?

Yeah, I integrated invision (see your post at sitepoint)

bassically 2 databases to keep things reasonable separated, but just auto register in both database, and auto login for both forum+oscommerce

 

How do you users react to having to register twice or three times if using PayPal.

Some do get annoyed, I think the paypal IPN mod pre populates the rego form for them on the paypal site, so its not TOO difficult. I'd still prefer another system like 2checkout to avoid even this..

(it takes time for them to register, and we want to capture the impulse buyer!)

 

 

I've only used PayPal on my site to sell products. So how do these other processing providers work? Which one is recommended?

They work in a similiar fashion, except they don't have to register anything at the processors end.

For instance, they will get transferred to the processors webpage, have to enter in CC details till its successfulyl debited, and transferred back to your site. done, seamlessly.. hopefully :)

 

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This comes up frequently and we're trying to figure out how to address it given the way our service is currently designed.

 

But I wanted to find out why there is so much opposition to PayPal registration but none to store registration. In the off-line world the opposite is the case where the shopper has a payment account but doesn't have to register with the store.

 

It seems to me that a PayPal-only online store could eliminate practically the entire checkout process except for possibly getting a zip code to calculate shipping. Existing PayPal users (20+ million) could complete the entire checout with a password and a few clicks.

Patrick Breitenbach

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok a couple of points, and I might investigate this further to give you some better feedback, asI might be misguided here.

 

People love to do their own thing, they love to customise and have full control over their shop. Hence, with oscommerce, I can change any aspect of it to suite my customers need. Paypal I don't have as many options, you have to see that point? This goes for the way I display products, specials, shipping etc etc THe only way I see to use paypal is to pass them a value to take from the customers account.

 

I can also offer multiple payment options with my own store.

 

For a international account at least, I have to register a CC card. MEaning, they take a 1$ out, and I send the number back. This is good for security, but it takes time, meanwhile my customer goes to the competitor because their a impulse buyer and want it NOW. Of course, they have to wait for shipping if its a physical product.. but its still quicker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I wanted to find out why there is so much opposition to PayPal registration but none to store registration. In the off-line world the opposite is the case where the shopper has a payment account but doesn't have to register with the store.

In the offline world, you do give the store all of your information, the difference is it's all coded on the credit card you use. One swipe of that gives them everything they need. I've heard of services that allow you to enter in your credit card info at one web site then you can shop at any of their affiliate shops without having to re-enter all the information all over again. I don't think it's too popular though. Also, when you sign up for your credit card, you don't have to give them your bank account info. Another thing is that there are a lot of people out there that have heard the PayPal nightmare stories. My friend created a paypal account and someone paid him for an auction item. Apparently he didn't realize that if you want your money from PayPal, you have to have a bank account. Since he didn't have one, PayPal kept his money. They're not known for the best customer service either. Just my opinion though.

If every member of this board donated $1 to the dev team, that would be over $11,000.00. Don't you think this cart is worth at least a $1????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But shoppers don't have to register or open an account with an off-line store. PayPal provides the merchant with all the necessary shipping information. In fact, if every merchant used PayPal, shoppers would never have to type in their name, address and credit card information ever again!

 

I've never seen a credit card application that did not request bank information (and SSN and employer and salary, etc!).

 

US users may request a withdrawal via paper check.

Patrick Breitenbach

Link to comment
Share on other sites

integrating forums is tricky is it not :)

Aside from logging a user in twice (which is kind of a pain) i took a differnt route. I did not -integrate- perse' but kept the headers relativly similar between osc and the forums. Your more then welcome to view it. The neat thing is when i view the admin frame from the forums i can still switch back and forth between osc and forums with out it disappearing. Dirty implimentation of the two but it works. But then again... its probably not what your meaning by integrating the two projects.

 

http://24.79.40.252/shopcalhon/catalog/default.php

 

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But shoppers don't have to register or open an account with an off-line store.

That's true, but the off-line store has the luxury of checking your I.D. to make sure you are the owner of the credit card that you are using (not that all of them do). The only way to do that without having the physical card present is to get the persons name and address and compare it with what's in the credit card database. And the only way to do that is to have them enter it in via a registration.

In fact, if every merchant used PayPal, shoppers would never have to type in their name, address and credit card information ever again!

Isn't that only true if the user wants the product sent to the verified address that they supplied to paypal? If they want it shipped to their work, or someone else, wouldn't they have to type in their work address every time they buy something different using paypal. But if they register with the store and supply both a ship to and a billing address, they can pick where they want it to go via the store. For example, if I go to ShopA and buy something but want it shipped to work, when I go through paypal, I have to indicate that I want it shipped to my work via the comment box. Then I go to ShopB and want their product shipped to my work also, I have to enter in my work info again in the comment box. Isn't this how it works? I could be wrong.

I've never seen a credit card application that did not request bank information (and SSN and employer and salary, etc!).

I can tell you that I've never had to give my checking account number on a credit card application. SSN, employer, salary, yes, but never my bank account number.

If every member of this board donated $1 to the dev team, that would be over $11,000.00. Don't you think this cart is worth at least a $1????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

No one asked me, but I'll voice my PayPal opinion anyway.

 

Paul is right that in the offline world consumers are registered with their credit card service providers and not (generally) with the stores at which they shop. And he's also correct in that it hasn't translated that way (very well) to online business.

 

I believe this is the case because the Internet is SO DAMN CONFUSING for so many people. You and I and everyone on this board practically live on the internet, but John Q. Public is probably lucky to spend an hour a day online. He doesn't have enough time (or technical prowess) to figure out what PayPal is or why he has to sign up twice or anything like that. He's lucky if he can figure out why his 56k modem is only loading pages at 33K. People are ignorant, very easily confused, and they are in a hurry...

 

This is the biggest reason why people don't/can't/won't use PayPal. If they're having a good day they've just figured out how to use the shopping cart...just deciphered how to manuever over to the checkout...and are ready to put in their credit card & shipping info. Nothing else...just the shipping & payment info please. You start throwing all this extra stuff at them about "Payments processed by PayPal" and "Create your Accout" and etc etc etc... They get confused, and bail out.

 

Why do you think WindowsXP looks like it was designed by Fisher Price? Gates and his minions are smart enough to know that most people are undereducated and need someone to "dumb down" all this technology for them.

 

I know how to fix this for PayPal though. The idea is remarkably easy, and it would SKYROCKET their userbase. It would put these as yet uninformed people in PayPal's pocket forever. Merchant Account providers all over the country hope that PayPal never learns about this idea. EBay/PayPal would have to lease the state of Kansas just to hold all the servers they'd need.

You've tried to philosophize your pain

but the hurt's in your heart and not in your brain

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to address a couple more of the interesting points Patrick brings up about PayPal.

 

First of all, customers in an offline store DO NOT have to provide informtaion or create an account with the merchants credit card processor. The simply swipe their card. So having to create a paypal account is an EXTRA step for them that thay are not used to. Having an account with their OWN bank is alot diffent than having to have an accont woth every credit card processor that processes your credit card.

 

 

If you go into an offline store, buy a product, and asked to have it shipped to your house, who asks for your personal information, such as address and contact info? The credit card processor? NO, of course not. The merchant does.

 

And when you go to an offline store to purchase something, are you asked to then walk across the street to pay for it? No, of course not. You pay for it there, on the spot.

 

As far as everyone using PayPal all the time, get real.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a user of Paypal, and can't really find any solid info on site...so I'm going to ask here ;)

 

If a business (the seller) signs up for the "business paypal" package (meaning he can accept Credit Cards directly) - does the buyer still have to sign up for a Paypal account ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunatly, yes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, I didn't read your post well enough.

 

I have a business account, and I am unaware of any option to accept cards directly. All customers still have to leave my site, go to paypal, and create an account.

 

If there is a way to accept card number directly, I'd LOVE to know what it is. Especially if customers didn't have to create an account. Then I could take orders over the phone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, customers in an offline store DO NOT have to provide informtaion or create an account with the merchants credit card processor. The simply swipe their card.

Hey there 'Wizard'. Of course you are correct, but I think you may have misunderstood pbreit's point. He was saying that all consumers who use credit cards ALREADY HAVE set up a relationship with the service provider (aka the banks that issue their Visa, MC, Amex cards). In the offline world the consumer submits all their personal data to a credit card provider in order to obtain a card (as an offline alternative to cash). This relationship is built LONG before they even visit a store.

 

Pbreit was making the point (and wondering why) that in the online world so many people refuse to submit similar info to PayPal...even though PayPal (to the lay consumer) is merely an online alternative to cash...just like credit cards in the offline realm.

 

If a business (the seller) signs up for the "business paypal" package (meaning he can accept Credit Cards directly) - does the buyer still have to sign up for a Paypal account ?

Burt... Yes. The buyer must be registered with PayPal to send a payment to you. No way around that in the PayPal business model.

 

If there is a way to accept card number directly, I'd LOVE to know what it is. Especially if customers didn't have to create an account. Then I could take orders over the phone.

There are a number of ways to do this. The ABSOLUTE BEST way is to set up a merchant account. They are cheaper than ever to set up and if you look hard enough very inexpensive to maintain. Another option is with a third party CC processor (of which there are probably a hundred to choose from). Look into www.ProPay.com or www.2checkout.com or www.revecom.com. These third party options are the most expensive solutions, and you have to jump through a lot of hoops to do business their way, but they work for some people.

 

I love PayPal. It is still the most economical third party solution out there. BUT since not everyone is a PayPal member, and since many people are too nervous and/or ignorant about PayPal's system it is not a viable stand-alone system.

 

I have a regular merchant account and I also use PayPal. That way no body gets left out if they want to buy my junk.

You've tried to philosophize your pain

but the hurt's in your heart and not in your brain

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Qwack,

 

Pbreit was making the point (and wondering why) that in the online world so many people refuse to submit similar info to PayPal...even though PayPal (to the lay consumer) is merely an online alternative to cash...just like credit cards in the offline realm.  

 

I understand his point. What I was trying to counter with, is that people don't like to submit similar information to PayPal because they have ALREADY have given that information to their bank. I don't know about you, but my customers want to use their credit cards. And they already have a bank, and they already have submitted their information to their credit card companies. Why should they have to submitt it AGAIN just to use the card?

 

I also understand your point about 3rd party CC processors, and I know a fair amount about them. I currently use 2checkout as an alternative to paypal. I'm still loiking into a merchant accont, but I fel I need a higher volume of sales before going that route.

 

Unless I misunderstood him, Burt had asked if you had a <b>PayPal</b> "Business Account" and can accept credit cards directly and then have <b>PayPal </b>process them for you, why does the customer have to create an account at PayPal. I responded by saying that I was not aware of a way to accept CC info Directly and still use <b>PayPal </b>to proces the cards.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I was under the impression that if a business signed up for the Paypal Business Account, then it could accept Credit Cards directly into their Paypal a/c without the buyer signing up for Paypal.

 

I guess not then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know how to fix this for PayPal though.

 

Care to explain?

 

 

Pbreit was wondering why in the online world so many people refuse to submit similar info to PayPal.

 

I was not wondering this at all because the data (20+ million accounts) proves the opposite. I was wondering why merchants were so concerned about it.

 

 

Why should they have to submitt it AGAIN just to use the card?

 

Well, they have to submit it to *someone* in order to make the purchase. Unless they are an existing PayPal user, of course.

 

without the buyer signing up for Paypal

 

It's somewhat semantics. PayPal issues a password. Whether or not that is the equivalent of "signing up" could probably be argued.

Patrick Breitenbach

Link to comment
Share on other sites

without the buyer signing up for Paypal

 

It's somewhat semantics. PayPal issues a password. Whether or not that is the equivalent of "signing up" could probably be argued.

 

OK thank you, put another way then: A business signs up for the "business account" which allows that business to accept credit cards directly. A customer elects to purchase using Paypal. The customer is directed off to the Paypal Secure server.

 

...

 

Does that customer have to set up a Paypal a/c, pay X amount into it from his Credit Card, and then transfer X amount from his newly created Paypal account into the Business's Paypal a/c ?

 

OR...

 

Can that customer simply type in his credit card details and then hit a button, and thats it! No Paypal account created *for the customer*...

 

Thats in a nutshell what I am trying to find out without any success at all - the Paypal site is awful for finding out *detailed* information...

 

Thanks for your time :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Burt,

 

The customer can pay directly to your Business Account, after they have created an account of their own.

 

In other words, they have to create a login and password, then they can deposit funds directly into your account.

 

Pat,

 

Quote: 

Pbreit was wondering why in the online world so many people refuse to submit similar info to PayPal. 





I was not wondering this at all because the data (20+ million accounts) proves the opposite. I was wondering why merchants were so concerned about it.

 

Because CUSTOMERS are concerned about it. Do you really think I would care if I didn't receive a half dozen emails and phone calls a week expressing displeasure that they have to create a paypal account to pay me? Of course not.

 

Just becasue you have 20+ million accounts has nothing to do with the fact that online shoppers that want to become MY customer, don't necesarrily want to become YOUR customer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also Pat,

 

Well, they have to submit it to *someone* in order to make the purchase. Unless they are an existing PayPal user, of course.  

 

This is not true. When you go to the pizza place and order a pizza, pul out your credit card to pay. The pizza man tells you you have to go accross the street to the bank and create an account with them in order to pay.

 

When you pay with a credit card, no one asks you for a username and password.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Paypal. Alot. It's far from perfect, though. I was able to get my checkout page customized, and thanks for that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't get me wrong, I like Paypal. Alot. It's far from perfect, though. I was able to get my checkout page customized, and thanks for that.

 

Don't mind me jumping in here in the middle of the discussion :)

 

Maybe you're trying to make PayPal work like a normal payment processor, say Authorize.net. This is not the primary goal of PayPal - one advantage of PayPal over Authorize.net is having to enter the credit card number at one location instead of several "pizza plazas".

 

The best you could do is offer both PayPal and, say, Authorize.net as payment methods for your customers - instead of just the PayPal method. That way the customer can choose whats best in their opinion, not whats best in your opinion.

:heart:, osCommerce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harlold,

 

Oh, I completly agree. To be fair, as a customer, I myself, like paypal because I only have to give my credit card info out to one place. I think they offer a bunch of advantages, such aas a free bill pay service.

 

However, as a merchant, I'd like PayPal a lot more if they would offer "Merchant Services" much they way, say, 2checkout does. Fully customizable header and footer, and only the credit card information itself needs to be transferred top them.

 

As I've said, I do offer my customers the freedom of a choice between 2checkout and PayPal. I found that before I added 2checkout, I received MANY MANY complaints from customers. After I added 2checkout, my orders nearly doubled, and my click/purchase ratio shot up. I now find that about 40% of my purchases (about 15 -30per week) come through paypal.

 

Hey, I prefer that customers use PayPal. Is costs me about $1 less per sale in fees. I wish everyone on the planet would use them. I'm just asking for improvement so that my percentage of sales through PayPal would go UP.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, as a merchant, I'd like PayPal a lot more if they would offer "Merchant Services" much they way, say, 2checkout does. Fully customizable header and footer, and only the credit card information itself needs to be transferred top them.

 

As I've said, I do offer my customers the freedom of a choice between 2checkout and PayPal.  I found that before I added 2checkout, I received MANY MANY complaints from customers. After I added 2checkout, my orders nearly doubled, and my click/purchase ratio shot up. I now find that about 40% of my purchases (about 15 -30per week) come through paypal.

 

Personally it would be a shock to me going through the checkout procedure and suddenly landing at another site (which may or may not look similar to the original site) just to enter the credit card details. The only difference between 2CheckOut and, say, Authorize.net is that the Authorize.net method is invisible to the customer. Both of these methods do not store the credit card details locally but are sent (or entered for 2CheckOut) to the appropriate processing servers.

 

If you had a payment method of Authorize.net I am sure your sales would increase even more :)

 

[i am not recommending (or not not recommending) Authorize.net, I am just using them as an example]

 

Hey, I prefer that customers use PayPal. Is costs me about $1 less per sale in fees. I wish everyone on the planet would use them. I'm just asking for improvement so that my percentage of sales through PayPal would go UP.

 

This is the main issue - getting the best service at the cheapest rate :D

:heart:, osCommerce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you had a payment method of Authorize.net I am sure your sales would increase even more  

 

I'm sure that this is true. However, balancing your income vs. your costs can be tricky as a startup. With, Authorize.net, you are required to have an SSL ($50 per year) and a merchant account (~$20 per month) PLUS an additonal 2.2 % and $.34 per transaction to the gateway.

 

So by switching, I need to make an additonal ~$25 per month in net revenue just to make up the difference. I think I'm at the point where I need to do this, I just havn't pulled the trigger on it yet. I wanted to make sure my business was going to make it past the first 6 months before I committed to somehting more long term. Now it looks as though I might be hre to stay.

 

BTW, I'd like to thank you for personally responding, Harold.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: As of Oct 2006, I'm not as active in this forum as I used to be, but I still work with osC quite a bit.

If you have a question about any of my posts here, your best bet is to contact me though either Email or PM in my profile, and I'll be happy to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...