Amazon-like site possible with osCommerce?

[DanielBuus]

Hello everyone :)

 

I've started new work, helping a university bookstore that services mainly the students, replacing their currently horrible and buggy webshop. The new website is basically supposed to do what Amazon does (including the semantic features, like "Other people who bought this book also bought..." - that kind of stuff).

 

As said, right now their website is really quite bad, not quite dynamic, too rugged, and the company who developed it has seized to be, and thus it's no longer supported. My task is to replace it completely and add a range of nice features, like the ones found on Amazon, Blackwells and similar places.

 

The current hardware on-site is entirely Microsoft controlled, and the book database is populated by an MSSQL server. The server isn't going to become a Debian server anytime soon, regardless of my preferences, but PHP works on IIS, and even if I can't find an eCommerce or CMF solution that runs on MSSQL, I can install MySQL alongside the MS beast to support this system.

 

Basically, we have these needs, that we're hoping we might meet if we use osCommerce:

 

- Runs on MS IIS.

- Can use an MSSQL server. As described, not necessarily for its own data. At least we must be able to access our book database on the MSSQL server, and use the data for (some of the) content generation, and for order registration/stock management/etc. (they also have a physical store that uses the database, and an accounting-like program called XAL that uses it also. The database the web shop will be using is actually a specialized copy of this one, but as far as possible, I'm not to touch this setup.) At least this should be possible for me to program my way out of without dissecting the system in two.

- The system should be highly customizable. That is, I should never have to say, "I'm sorry, you can't have that feature, because osCommerce doesn't support that". I let the webmaster look at the demo backends of osCommerce and Zen Cart on opensourcecms.com, and he preferred osCommerce, but also said that it's quite far from what they need, information-wise mostly. That is, they need to register a lot more info. It seems that mostly, we have to add things by tweaking, and I'm hoping this is possible without having to touch core code?

- Performance should be high. By this, I mean that search and page rendering times shouldn't be noticably affected as the product list exceeds 2.5 million books (the store adds books from Browker and other suppliers, in order to let people order anything, even if not in stock). As this data is in the MSSQL database, that shouldn't really be a system-specific issue, but at least osCommerce should have a priority regarding performance.

- Support for multiple languages (as in integrated, and easy to manage).

- Breadcrumbs for navigation.

- Forums for discussing books.

- Automatic image processing (? la ImageMagick) for scaling uploads to preset sizes (thumbnails and so on). Bearing in mind it'll be running on a Windows server.

- Newsmail support (generation, easy creation, list management...)

- PDF creation (for invoices).

- Support for AJAX (as in it won't break the system to add some AJAX to some of the pages. Not even sure if this makes any sense to put on the list, just ignore it if you go, "Huh?")

 

Okay then. With the list of wishes above, combined with the declared purpose of the system (think "This guy basically just wants to copy Amazon"), I would be very grateful to receive thoughts about this and/or experiences with similar projects. Would you consider osCommerce a viable system for doing this? Or would I have to basically rebuild the system in order to do this? Meaning that I'd be better off using something like TYPO3, Drupal, or MODx?

 

Thank you in advance for any feedback and ideas that you provide :)

 

Best regards,

Daniel Buus, Denmark

[Guest]

I suggest coding your own solution...especially with 2.5 million products. If you choose osC you'll need to refactor a lot of the code to support even trivial concurrent user loads.

[DanielBuus]

I suggest coding your own solution...especially with 2.5 million products. If you choose osC you'll need to refactor a lot of the code to support even trivial concurrent user loads.

 

Hi, and thanks for your reply :)

 

Could you be a little more specific? Like where is the bottleneck that makes osC unviable for this many products? Also, why would I need to refactor a lot of the code, and what kind of refactoring are we talking about? For instance, if we're talking about having to adapt a series of extensions to accomodate our needs, that would be fine, but if we're talking about having to rewrite the entire core because it has some limitations, that would of course not be so great. Also, if the latter is the case, could you explain what the limitations are?

 

It's not that I don't believe you, but I really need more specifics to assess how much time each approach would consume, so that I can make the "right" choice.

 

Also, if anyone else has any input whatsoever, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

Daniel Buus :)

[boxtel]

Hello everyone :)

 

I've started new work, helping a university bookstore that services mainly the students, replacing their currently horrible and buggy webshop. The new website is basically supposed to do what Amazon does (including the semantic features, like "Other people who bought this book also bought..." - that kind of stuff).

 

As said, right now their website is really quite bad, not quite dynamic, too rugged, and the company who developed it has seized to be, and thus it's no longer supported. My task is to replace it completely and add a range of nice features, like the ones found on Amazon, Blackwells and similar places.

 

The current hardware on-site is entirely Microsoft controlled, and the book database is populated by an MSSQL server. The server isn't going to become a Debian server anytime soon, regardless of my preferences, but PHP works on IIS, and even if I can't find an eCommerce or CMF solution that runs on MSSQL, I can install MySQL alongside the MS beast to support this system.

 

Basically, we have these needs, that we're hoping we might meet if we use osCommerce:

 

- Runs on MS IIS.

- Can use an MSSQL server. As described, not necessarily for its own data. At least we must be able to access our book database on the MSSQL server, and use the data for (some of the) content generation, and for order registration/stock management/etc. (they also have a physical store that uses the database, and an accounting-like program called XAL that uses it also. The database the web shop will be using is actually a specialized copy of this one, but as far as possible, I'm not to touch this setup.) At least this should be possible for me to program my way out of without dissecting the system in two.

- The system should be highly customizable. That is, I should never have to say, "I'm sorry, you can't have that feature, because osCommerce doesn't support that". I let the webmaster look at the demo backends of osCommerce and Zen Cart on opensourcecms.com, and he preferred osCommerce, but also said that it's quite far from what they need, information-wise mostly. That is, they need to register a lot more info. It seems that mostly, we have to add things by tweaking, and I'm hoping this is possible without having to touch core code?

- Performance should be high. By this, I mean that search and page rendering times shouldn't be noticably affected as the product list exceeds 2.5 million books (the store adds books from Browker and other suppliers, in order to let people order anything, even if not in stock). As this data is in the MSSQL database, that shouldn't really be a system-specific issue, but at least osCommerce should have a priority regarding performance.

- Support for multiple languages (as in integrated, and easy to manage).

- Breadcrumbs for navigation.

- Forums for discussing books.

- Automatic image processing (? la ImageMagick) for scaling uploads to preset sizes (thumbnails and so on). Bearing in mind it'll be running on a Windows server.

- Newsmail support (generation, easy creation, list management...)

- PDF creation (for invoices).

- Support for AJAX (as in it won't break the system to add some AJAX to some of the pages. Not even sure if this makes any sense to put on the list, just ignore it if you go, "Huh?")

 

Okay then. With the list of wishes above, combined with the declared purpose of the system (think "This guy basically just wants to copy Amazon"), I would be very grateful to receive thoughts about this and/or experiences with similar projects. Would you consider osCommerce a viable system for doing this? Or would I have to basically rebuild the system in order to do this? Meaning that I'd be better off using something like TYPO3, Drupal, or MODx?

 

Thank you in advance for any feedback and ideas that you provide :)

 

Best regards,

Daniel Buus, Denmark

 

well, basically all you want is possible.

with regard to performance, I think it is mainly a hardware architecture issue.

Besides, if your current webshop supports that volume then I see no reason why osc could not.

I would simply dump IIS for apache, migrate your MS to Mysql, setup a test shop and give it a try.

[DanielBuus]

well, basically all you want is possible.

with regard to performance, I think it is mainly a hardware architecture issue.

Besides, if your current webshop supports that volume then I see no reason why osc could not.

I would simply dump IIS for apache, migrate your MS to Mysql, setup a test shop and give it a try.

 

Hi Amanda, thanks for your input :)

 

"All you want is possible" is a frase I like and use alot myself ;) I always add a "but..." to the end of it, though. Do you have one, too? I mean, something has to be changed, but in your experience, how likely am I to be able to stay clear of having to make alterations to core code? This is pretty much my main concern, along with hoping to be able to reuse a lot of the eCommerce-specific functionality already present. In short, the two questions would probably be:

 

1. Can I use osCommerce as a base system to build a new "Amazon" without having to make changes to core code?

 

2. Will the eCommerce-specific code that osCommerce implements save me time in creating this new "Amazon", or is it basically too far-off to be usable? So that maybe I'd just be better off choosing a CMF like Drupal or TYPO3?

 

Thanks :)

 

Daniel

[boxtel]

Hi Amanda, thanks for your input :)

 

"All you want is possible" is a frase I like and use alot myself ;) I always add a "but..." to the end of it, though. Do you have one, too? I mean, something has to be changed, but in your experience, how likely am I to be able to stay clear of having to make alterations to core code? This is pretty much my main concern, along with hoping to be able to reuse a lot of the eCommerce-specific functionality already present. In short, the two questions would probably be:

 

1. Can I use osCommerce as a base system to build a new "Amazon" without having to make changes to core code?

 

2. Will the eCommerce-specific code that osCommerce implements save me time in creating this new "Amazon", or is it basically too far-off to be usable? So that maybe I'd just be better off choosing a CMF like Drupal or TYPO3?

 

Thanks :)

 

Daniel

 

well, your every day functionality like "also purchased" and "new products" etc. is standard.

not sure what you mean by "code code" as it is open source so the whole thing is "code".

 

multilanguage, breadcrumb are standard.

 

for all others there are plenty of contributions you can install to add that functionality.

 

and ajax, sure, use it myself.

 

so bottomline, on a default osc installation most basic functions are standard but if you want it to have the functionality close to amazon and alike, then you will have to revert to contribution installation and most of those touch what you call "core code". if everything you ever wanted was standard then this forum would not exist basically.

[DanielBuus]

well, your every day functionality like "also purchased" and "new products" etc. is standard.

not sure what you mean by "code code" as it is open source so the whole thing is "code".

 

Not code code, coRe code :D - I'd prefer to "play inside the sandbox, not rebuild it," so to speak :) That is, only alter code in extensions, not code in the osCommerce system itself.

 

multilanguage, breadcrumb are standard.

 

for all others there are plenty of contributions you can install to add that functionality.

 

and ajax, sure, use it myself.

 

so bottomline, on a default osc installation most basic functions are standard but if you want it to have the functionality close to amazon and alike, then you will have to revert to contribution installation and most of those touch what you call "core code". if everything you ever wanted was standard then this forum would not exist basically.

 

Hehe, good point! :)

 

As it turns out, we're moving towards using TYPO3. Partly because we're now convinced that we can create all of the wanted functionality within the "play nice" boundaries of the systems (i.e. by creating extensions and using the API, without messing with the core code), and because it is strategically more advantageous for me to acquire skills with a more generic system like TYPO3 than in a more specialized system like osCommerce, even considering the steep learning curve

 

This doesn't mean that I won't be using osCommerce in the future, though. It definitely seems the more attractive of the ones I've researched, especially since the 3.0 seems to be coming along contrary to what a lot of people have suggested.

 

Thank you very much for your help!

[boxtel]

Not code code, coRe code :D - I'd prefer to "play inside the sandbox, not rebuild it," so to speak :) That is, only alter code in extensions, not code in the osCommerce system itself.

Hehe, good point! :)

 

As it turns out, we're moving towards using TYPO3. Partly because we're now convinced that we can create all of the wanted functionality within the "play nice" boundaries of the systems (i.e. by creating extensions and using the API, without messing with the core code), and because it is strategically more advantageous for me to acquire skills with a more generic system like TYPO3 than in a more specialized system like osCommerce, even considering the steep learning curve

 

This doesn't mean that I won't be using osCommerce in the future, though. It definitely seems the more attractive of the ones I've researched, especially since the 3.0 seems to be coming along contrary to what a lot of people have suggested.

 

Thank you very much for your help!

 

well, I do not know TYPO3 but it may be a very good direction to go.

wrt osc3, that release is just as "basic" as osc2 was many years ago so some waiting would be required until it has a comparable contribution-set as osc2 today.

[DanielBuus]

well, I do not know TYPO3 but it may be a very good direction to go.

wrt osc3, that release is just as "basic" as osc2 was many years ago so some waiting would be required until it has a comparable contribution-set as osc2 today.

 

Hadn't really considered that, but of course you're right, the user contributions on open source projects are really important! Anyway, this project runs almost a year, so maybe then...? ;)

 

Cheers!