Mikeote Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Hi I sell e-products, I have decided to use Payflow Link to process the cards on my site as I do not use a shopping cart and I think I can just link the products through hyperlinks to the ordering page. I need the advanced fraud protection so I don't get killed by chargebacks. It doesn't let people use credit cards if they are more than 100 miles away from the billing address listed on the card. It also detects if people try to use more than 1 card if another fails which means if one of the stolen cards they use fail due to one of the filters they cannot use another one. I'm suseptable to either a credit card thief who has a stolen credit card info with a billing address less than 100 miles from his i.p address, also people using their own legit cards than filing a chargeback claiming I never sent them the goods, I know of no way to stop this considering I do not ship to physical addresses. Does any one know how I could protect myself from these threats ? Or does any one know of a third party paypal alternative that doesn't allow chargebacks such as alertpay or moneybookers or egold that you can sign up for free but unlike them are able charge your account with funds using your credit card without having to go through a long process to verify the credit card first ? Also does any one know which is the cheapest Payflow Link processor ? Any help would be much appreciated ! Regards... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111 Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 I use paypal even with e-goods. If you are getting alot of charges backs just mail an empty envelope to the buyer via USPS. (This will cost you about $4 with online tracking) but for expensive online goods it may be worth the piece of mind that you will be covered in the case of a charge back. Because paypal will give you the $$ even if there is a charge back, as long as you mailed *something* to the confirmed address. Most fraud and chargebacks will hit you within a week of the transaction (the person who had their card stolen notices it on their bill). And paypal gives you 7 days after the order to have mailed it.... so you can even mail the empty envelope after the order has already been charged back, provided it is within 7 days on the order. (confirmed address just means that their address is the same as the address on the Credit card) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Hi Mike, Although eveyone has their own way of conducting their online businesses, I do feel that i've taken myself away from the beginning of what you're thinking that's possible to happen. a. I use PayPal for online processing. Seller's DownFalls..... Wanting to get in the way of processing credit cards. Let the companies that are in business of doing it, do it. Here are just a few things I don't have to worry about when a customer pays me through PayPal. b. I have NO records at all of the credit card no#... Nothing,,, zero... So I'm out of that picture. Think of ALL,,, ALL of the possible things people can accuse you of, just because you have collected such. c. If an order doesn't go through for some odd reason, and the customer goes elsewhere, I don't have to worry about the customer saying "Awe man,,, I gave him my credit card info... Which points back to my point no#1. d. PayPal WILL VERIFY the credit card for you.... you don't have to do that. You have other things to concentrate on. e. Something happening to your computer.... viruses, trojans, hackers, hard drive failure and a host of other events that can cause you to expose someones credit card info. f. Chargeback phone calls. They never gave their credit card info to me, so they have no right or even an obligation to call me about getting the chargeback. That there alone can cost anyone a bunch of phone time, and of course......... MORE MONEY!!! If you have a processing company to handle the credit cards for you, let them do it. Move on. I have people call to order from me all the time and are ready to give me their credit card no# while we're on the phone... and do you know what I say?.... "If you're paying for this with a credit card, I'll take all of your information form you, then I'll send you an invoice to your email address through PayPal. Inside of the invoice there will be a link that you can click on and it'll take you straight to PayPal to pay for your order." I also have found out using my own analysis, that if a person comes to your web site and is ready to "buy"..... that person has an email address. I can say 98% of anyone whoever wanted to buy from me.... rather yet,,, that HAVE BOUGHT from me,, has an email address. All-in-all, don't get too rapped up in that "There are thieves out there, and they might defraud me" ordeal. Concentrate on your business, and your business only. Trying to verify credit card thieves while trying to run your business may cause your business to become a "credit card thief catching business." I'm not saying to be closed-mined about it, but don't make that your business quest. I sell headstones and my products weigh hundreds and thousands of pounds, and I get PayPal payments in the hundreds and thousands of $$ at a time per order. Do you think I'm worried about fraud? No I'm not. i'll let PayPal handle that for me, that's part of why they charge me for accepting monies. If you procesor can do it all for you,,, let them do it all for you. Kevin "What I didn't know yesterday, I know today & will remember tomorrow" (By Kwalker) What do you see when you open up the tep_database-pr2.2-CVS.pdf file that came with your osCommerce download? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeote Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 Thanks for your replies but the reason I don't use paypal is because I do not ship any thing, I sell alot of small value items which means I cannot send an envelope to every one that buys from me and I would get bombarded with chargebacks. Using payflow link means you do not have any access to the credit card info, they go from your site to the verisign payflow link page where they input their details on a 256bit encrypted page. Paypal doesn't work for cheap online goods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 As far as I know, PayPal will process any $$ amount. You seem to have everything in order. Is chargebacks your only concern? Do you sell something, maybe computer form, and you don't want people getting your products, then wanting a refund after they, either copied it, got the source code or any other trick to "borrow" the product? If that's the case, all you would need to do is put a disclaimer (that they MUST agree to before they can checkout) on your site, which clearly states that there are NO refunds and if there is a problem with said product, it'll be replaced with the same product or something to that nature. Kevin "What I didn't know yesterday, I know today & will remember tomorrow" (By Kwalker) What do you see when you open up the tep_database-pr2.2-CVS.pdf file that came with your osCommerce download? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeote Posted November 17, 2005 Author Share Posted November 17, 2005 Chargebacks is my only problem but it is a huge one. I know paypal will process any amount but when I say "Paypal doesn't work for cheap online goods" I mean it doesn't work because there is no resonable way to protect yourself from frauduland chargebacks. If I said "there are no refunds allowed" it wouldn't make a difference as people would submit fraudulant chargebacks any way and there is nothing I can do about it. The only way I could use paypal is if I created a new unverified paypal account, recieve the payments in that untill it got near to it's limit which would take around 12 hours, than empty all the money from it into my verified paypal account and close the unverified account, than make another unverified account and repeat. What a hassle :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 You just rang a bell. You could always set your PayPal to accept orders ONLY from VERIFIED members. I'm not sure many VERIFIED members will do a chargeback, not unless there is something wrong with your products or service. Kevin "What I didn't know yesterday, I know today & will remember tomorrow" (By Kwalker) What do you see when you open up the tep_database-pr2.2-CVS.pdf file that came with your osCommerce download? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeote Posted November 17, 2005 Author Share Posted November 17, 2005 If some one verifies their address and bank account it doesn't make them honest, i'm sure this would cut down the amount of chargebacks considerably though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
computergal Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 You should be careful with Paypal. They will freeze your account for no reason and you cant get you money out for 180 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 I've been using PayPal for almost 2 years now.... It's never happened to me. Kevin "What I didn't know yesterday, I know today & will remember tomorrow" (By Kwalker) What do you see when you open up the tep_database-pr2.2-CVS.pdf file that came with your osCommerce download? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vr_driver Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 I've been using PayPal for almost 2 years now.... It's never happened to me.Kevin Hi guys, and girls, I'm still new at this stuff, and I'm wanting to offer digital downloads too - photos specifically. But this is where I'm lost on what I should do. I've got the CC payment module on, and yes, it gives me the chance to get the cc numbers to be able to charge them manually. However, this is no good for me as I need a real time cc checker. Can Pay Pal do this for me, to allow people to enter thier details, get authorized, and then be able to download the product, without frauding me? Although I'm still testing and playing with osc.... At the moment, with the standard cc payment module, I can enter a bogus cc number and download as much as I want. Can someone direct me on the best method in providing a safe method of payment for me, so I don't get ripped off, and for my customer to be able to download in real time? Thanks in advance Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bestsoft Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 I use Maxmind which will rank the all the information. the scale runs from 0-10.. 10 being the worst. If I get a 2.5 or higher I will call the customer to comfirm the order. I have had only 1 chargeback in 3 yrs. You can find the contribution below Credit Card Fraud Detection Service - Maxmind http://www.oscommerce.com/community?contri...nd&category=all Hi I sell e-products, I have decided to use Payflow Link to process the cards on my site as I do not use a shopping cart and I think I can just link the products through hyperlinks to the ordering page. I need the advanced fraud protection so I don't get killed by chargebacks. It doesn't let people use credit cards if they are more than 100 miles away from the billing address listed on the card. It also detects if people try to use more than 1 card if another fails which means if one of the stolen cards they use fail due to one of the filters they cannot use another one. I'm suseptable to either a credit card thief who has a stolen credit card info with a billing address less than 100 miles from his i.p address, also people using their own legit cards than filing a chargeback claiming I never sent them the goods, I know of no way to stop this considering I do not ship to physical addresses. Does any one know how I could protect myself from these threats ? Or does any one know of a third party paypal alternative that doesn't allow chargebacks such as alertpay or moneybookers or egold that you can sign up for free but unlike them are able charge your account with funds using your credit card without having to go through a long process to verify the credit card first ? Also does any one know which is the cheapest Payflow Link processor ? Any help would be much appreciated ! Regards... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Actually when you receive a chargeback from paypal and it's for digital goods all you need to do is resolve the issue, put down other tracking information and in the box below tell paypal it is for an intangible item (downloadable goods) and you will win the despute every time. My business started with downloadable goods and used paypal only. I had a couple of people try to do a chargeback and after getting upset I emailed paypal asking them how I tell them it was for a download. I got a reply back saying to do what i just told you and i havent lost any money since then. I actually have more problems with accepting credit cards then i do paypal as far as chargebacks on intangible items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeote Posted November 19, 2005 Author Share Posted November 19, 2005 Actually when you receive a chargeback from paypal and it's for digital goods all you need to do is resolve the issue, put down other tracking information and in the box below tell paypal it is for an intangible item (downloadable goods) and you will win the despute every time. My business started with downloadable goods and used paypal only. I had a couple of people try to do a chargeback and after getting upset I emailed paypal asking them how I tell them it was for a download. I got a reply back saying to do what i just told you and i havent lost any money since then. I actually have more problems with accepting credit cards then i do paypal as far as chargebacks on intangible items. Really ? ! What tracking info do you have with online goods ? I only have the info on the payment. If you accept paypal than why not just use paypal ? As when a customer pays by credit or debit card they don't have to make a paypal account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111 Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Actually when you receive a chargeback from paypal and it's for digital goods all you need to do is resolve the issue, put down other tracking information and in the box below tell paypal it is for an intangible item (downloadable goods) and you will win the despute every time. My business started with downloadable goods and used paypal only. I had a couple of people try to do a chargeback and after getting upset I emailed paypal asking them how I tell them it was for a download. I got a reply back saying to do what i just told you and i havent lost any money since then. I actually have more problems with accepting credit cards then i do paypal as far as chargebacks on intangible items. This only works if they dispute is lodged through paypal. If the customer goes directly to their bank or credit card company to charge it back, this will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printchic Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Hi I sell e-products, I have decided to use Payflow Link to process the cards on my site as I do not use a shopping cart and I think I can just link the products through hyperlinks to the ordering page. I need the advanced fraud protection so I don't get killed by chargebacks. Hi, First I'm wondering if you have experienced problems with chargebacks or you are just trying to cover the "worst possible' senerio? I sell how to kits on doing a certain type business. I was shipping the item however, i got so many requests to make the ability to download the kits especially since some people lived in canada and wanted to save on 'shipping costs' I started off trying payloadz but that proved too costly for a small business like myself however my files were huge so i surf the net and found an alternative (a third party script) that interacts with paypal and dispenses the files automatically without any intervention from me. The third party script i use - encrypts the link to the file - expires the link based on when i specify - send me an email notify 'when they download the files' (so i have proof they accessed the files) If my recollection is correct it also provides their 'ip address' It has saved me a bundle by now having to pay for a download services space and fees associated with people downloading. What i did is just rented a 2nd website with large amount of space and bandwidth and i think it's been over a year and i've yet to go past the bandwidth limit. My cost $7.95 month. My only other charges are the fees I pay to paypal which i was doing already. I've never experience any fraud or problems you describe but reading your post I found it interesting which is why I ask if you have experienced it or just trying to cover the worse case senerio. Granted people ordering my stuff are ordering it for to start a business so they need constant contact with me for support, etc. I would think if you can 'show proof' the order was placed and downloaded 'people that used their credit card can't say they never got it' because you can show time/date they downloaded the files. Please email me directly if you think this script would benefit you and i would be happy to share the information. I have no connect with the seller of the script. I am new to this board and don't want to violate any rules by posting urls to products, etc. Take care, Signed, printchic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastermindonline Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Hi, I am using ALertpay and they have a very strong security measure in place. They actually call you when you add a new credit card to your account. If you need to spend over a certain limit, they ask you to submit a credit card authorization form. This does wonders to protect you from fraudulent chargebacks. They also offer you charge back protection if you choose the secured account. M Hi, First I'm wondering if you have experienced problems with chargebacks or you are just trying to cover the "worst possible' senerio? I sell how to kits on doing a certain type business. I was shipping the item however, i got so many requests to make the ability to download the kits especially since some people lived in canada and wanted to save on 'shipping costs' I started off trying payloadz but that proved too costly for a small business like myself however my files were huge so i surf the net and found an alternative (a third party script) that interacts with paypal and dispenses the files automatically without any intervention from me. The third party script i use - encrypts the link to the file - expires the link based on when i specify - send me an email notify 'when they download the files' (so i have proof they accessed the files) If my recollection is correct it also provides their 'ip address' It has saved me a bundle by now having to pay for a download services space and fees associated with people downloading. What i did is just rented a 2nd website with large amount of space and bandwidth and i think it's been over a year and i've yet to go past the bandwidth limit. My cost $7.95 month. My only other charges are the fees I pay to paypal which i was doing already. I've never experience any fraud or problems you describe but reading your post I found it interesting which is why I ask if you have experienced it or just trying to cover the worse case senerio. Granted people ordering my stuff are ordering it for to start a business so they need constant contact with me for support, etc. I would think if you can 'show proof' the order was placed and downloaded 'people that used their credit card can't say they never got it' because you can show time/date they downloaded the files. Please email me directly if you think this script would benefit you and i would be happy to share the information. I have no connect with the seller of the script. I am new to this board and don't want to violate any rules by posting urls to products, etc. Take care, Signed, printchic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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